Could it be said less wear under abuse with M1 ???

[Gary Allan]

Is it too much to ask for both?- Tony Stark

BGN- take something (my old reliable example) like a SBC in a C20 chassis (whatever its current designation 2500?). What alters in the OEM spec for towing? Is there any distinction between synthetic and conventional in the OEM's eyes. What's their recommendation for severe duty?

What life span will the engine see towing at full capacity 24/7/365 at higher power output?

Bryan has it right. Engineers can generally define engine life by the amount of fuel that will pass through it. That pretty much translates to total power produced.

Ask Doug Hillary. There is no magic oil. His choice of synthetics in HEAVY DUTY use was not for wear. It was for durability of the oil. He got 4+ times the service life at that power output with synthetic oils over the conventional oil that his competitors used.

He saw no significant difference in overhaul rates across his fleet over his competitors.

 

[Mark_S]

So the only difference to the engine between the cheapest dino and the most expensive synthetic is the OCI? The cheapo dino will protect the engine just as well as the boutique synthetic up to X,XXX miles. The synthetic is good for more miles, but up to the limits of the dino, there is no difference?

Mark

 

[ARB1977]

This would be a good test to see whats best by doing a uoa. If synthetic has been working up to this point why change now?

 

[demarpaint]

I'm thinking along the lines of planned depreciation being built into an engine. However I think using a quality synthetic oil vs a dino oil might extend the life slightly past its planned failure point. The engineers are good, but I don't think they're that good, and synthetic oil can beat them for a little while at their own game. How much more life is anyones guess.

Take 2 identical engines run side by side under the same conditions for the same OCI. My bet after 250,000 miles worth of fuel has passed through them, if they are torn down the synthetic oil would win. Now extend the synthetic OCI (double it) as many do and run the same test side by side with dino under normal OCI's I'm thinking it will be a different story. JMO

 

[webfors]

Remember the original question was the difference between M1 10w30 and 'cheap' dino. Not rotella 10w30, or any other premium dino oil but the cheapest dino oil he can get his hands on.

Agreed, if he used a premium dino with a high hths comparable to the M1 10w30 the difference would be null. But let's not alter the original question to satisfy our answers.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Mark_S

So the only difference to the engine between the cheapest dino and the most expensive synthetic is the OCI? The cheapo dino will protect the engine just as well as the boutique synthetic up to X,XXX miles. The synthetic is good for more miles, but up to the limits of the dino, there is no difference?

Mark


With all due respect I disagree. I can only speak for M1 oils but their synt. makes cold starts easier and oil flow is faster than dino. Better deposit control in high heat areas of the engine, piston rings and turbos. Due to decreased friction a very slight increase in MPG, and fewer OCs.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Mark_S

So the only difference to the engine between the cheapest dino and the most expensive synthetic is the OCI? The cheapo dino will protect the engine just as well as the boutique synthetic up to X,XXX miles. The synthetic is good for more miles, but up to the limits of the dino, there is no difference?

Mark


With all due respect I disagree. I can only speak for M1 oils but their synt. makes cold starts easier and oil flow is faster than dino. Better deposit control in high heat areas of the engine, piston rings and turbos. Due to decreased friction a very slight increase in MPG, and fewer OCs.


Do easier cold starts mean longer engine life? Remember Castrol's (and SAE's) "90% of all wear occurs at startup!" ...meaning the first 20 minutes. Not the first 3-5.
Does better deposit control mean that it takes longer to form deposits ...(hint) allowing longer drains? "or could it be said" that conventional requires more frequent changes to have identical or mirrored deposit formation characteristics?

Does fewer OCI's mean longer engine life?

Do turbo charged engines have common SM spec's? ..or is there some OEM requirement ..or in fact is a synthetic spec'd in many cases?

I've have repeatedly stated that you need to get your money's worth out of any oil you choose. You've either got to have a severity of service or a length of service (same thing, as demonstrated) to justify the cost. That may mean doing a 6month OCI over being trapped in the 3k/3m prison. For some it will mean one year.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN


Sure the life is shortened with hard driving but is it shortened less with a quality synthetic. I think the answer is yes.


And there you have it.

OTOH, we've seen a plethora of objective evidence that the only thing gained with synthetic oil compared to modern "conventional" oil is length of service and better protection in EXTREME conditions. ie, the ability to give unaided starts in extreme cold (-30 and colder, although plenty of people have reported here starting cars that cold with conventional oils of yesteryear and still got hundreds of thousands of miles out of their engines), and the ability to sustain extreme oil temps.

Redlining an engine here and there or racing your car down the 1/4 mile a few times is hardly extreme.

We've also seen things like the NYC taxi test that showed engine wear was statistically equal amongst synthetic and conventional oils of various grades.

 

[webfors]

And there's my father who has run nothing but cheap 30 weight dino in every car he's ever had and kept the cars until everything else fell apart around a perfectly running engine... To this day he smirks when I tell him I'm running a synthetic oil in my car. I can't take the bi-polar oil-think anymore!!

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: webfors
kept the cars until everything else fell apart around a perfectly running engine


That's pretty much been my experience. When you're up over 200,000 miles, the suspensions is getting soft, the chassis is getting worn out, the seats are ripped and stink like ****, electrical gremlins start popping up, etc. But the engine still runs great!

 

[FastSUV]

Originally Posted By: ARB1977
This would be a good test to see whats best by doing a uoa. If synthetic has been working up to this point why change now?


It has some minor leaks and is a retired vehicle so I just think dino or blend should be fine...I hate to waste the Mobil-1 HM formula since I am gonna change the oil at less than 3k now or every 6 months or a year maybe even...probably no need to switch but this site swayed me off of full-syn oils mainly due to OCI but also factoring in the leaks and I want to at least try dino HM oil or HDEO instead of the Mobil-1.

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: webfors
kept the cars until everything else fell apart around a perfectly running engine


That's pretty much been my experience. When you're up over 200,000 miles, the suspensions is getting soft, the chassis is getting worn out, the seats are ripped and stink like ****, electrical gremlins start popping up, etc. But the engine still runs great!


Well luckily most everything has been repaired on this one...suspensoion bushings and all that stuff is newer and I have practically rebuilt the whole darn Jeep over the last 80k miles or so...

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: webfors
kept the cars until everything else fell apart around a perfectly running engine


That's pretty much been my experience. When you're up over 200,000 miles, the suspensions is getting soft, the chassis is getting worn out, the seats are ripped and stink like ****, electrical gremlins start popping up, etc. But the engine still runs great!


You still don't get it. In many areas of the country the rest of the car outlasts the engine. Some of us keep up on the maintenance and replace things when they need to be replaced so unlike yours, our cars are not a pile of trash at 200K. Any extra life we can get out of the engine is welcome.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: BuickGN


Sure the life is shortened with hard driving but is it shortened less with a quality synthetic. I think the answer is yes.


And there you have it.

OTOH, we've seen a plethora of objective evidence that the only thing gained with synthetic oil compared to modern "conventional" oil is length of service and better protection in EXTREME conditions. ie, the ability to give unaided starts in extreme cold (-30 and colder, although plenty of people have reported here starting cars that cold with conventional oils of yesteryear and still got hundreds of thousands of miles out of their engines), and the ability to sustain extreme oil temps.

Redlining an engine here and there or racing your car down the 1/4 mile a few times is hardly extreme.

We've also seen things like the NYC taxi test that showed engine wear was statistically equal amongst synthetic and conventional oils of various grades.



Yes, some of us have the ability to think

Silly Drew, you've never taken an engine apart, you barely know how one works. It's nice that you can throw together a bunch of ideas you read off of the internet but my personal experiences have shown you're way off. I was afraid your post count would start going up once you hit the unemployment line.

The NYC taxi test was inconclusive, you know that already. Now insert some ignorant statement about thick oils and my 600hp car and take some old post of mine completely out of context, I would expect nothing less of you.