Could HPL clean too well for my car's problem?

[Ayrton]

I have been using R&P on my S60 5 Cylinder in an attempt to help with those inadequately designed control rings Volvo used for several years. It really has not helped at all and has always consumed more than my previous M1 0w40.

I would like to try HPL to see if it helps over a couple OCI, or at least, keep things from getting worse. However, is there any risk HPL will free up control ring carbon and hurt the engine/valves? I don't want to create something even more catastrophic.

I'm having a hard time deciding where to go. Back to M1 0w-40 is another option, but after using R&P a year, I thought continuing with another cleaner a while longer could make sense. If there's not "risk" from HPL, I'll go with that. Outside of control rings, the engine seems spotless from the M1 0w40 and R&P.

 

[Kira]

What year S60?
Turbo or non-turbo?
How many miles on it?
How much does it consume?

 

[zrxkawboy]

but after using R&P a year

I don't know anything about your particular engine, but I believe that R&P needs 4 OCIs to do its thing.

 

[demarpaint]

I don't know anything about your particular engine, but I believe that R&P needs 4 OCIs to do its thing.

+1

 

[Mainia]

So you are saying your engine is visually spotless from Mobil 1 products and VRP. And you worry HPL main engine oil will somehow let loosen hidden carbon in the ring lands to your motors detriment. I would think no, you have more then enough filter to take on that very small amount carbon that is left, you don't have a softball plus of sludge. Go for it, your 99,5% clean and VRP already started cleaning the ring lands. You probably have just a thin layer of carbon left holding the rings tight. Then if your car has a problematic engine which my Hyundai is, keep using VRP or once cleaned use what ever oil and HPL Engine Cleaner every other or every oil change.

 

[JavierH19]

vrp can take multiple changes to do its thing. You can keep using it or go for hpl if you'd like I can't see how it'd do too much cleaning. But wait for someone to chine in on which hpl oil cleans the best. I wouldn't bother with their EC oil at this point.

 

[Astro14]

There’s no risk from using the HPL - but, depending on the year of your car (and more details would really help, here), your oil consumption may not be stuck rings - it may be low tension rings, leaking turbo seals, or a partially clogged PCV system - none of which will be helped by any oil.

 

[Mainia]

vrp can take multiple changes to do its thing. You can keep using it or go for hpl if you'd like I can't see how it'd do too much cleaning. But wait for someone to chine in on which hpl oil cleans the best. I wouldn't bother with their EC oil at this point.

I suggested HPL EC as a maintenance additive. We have been told by Dave if I remember right EC won't clean ring that are jammed, but the HPL engine oil does. I myself would use VRP 5 times on a problematic car, I am on OCI # 4 with VRP on my Hyundai and will go to my 5w-40 summer oil in month when I hit my 3,000 OCI I use for my Hyundai.

 

[Jetronic]

Driving 4 answers on youtube has an interesting video on piston rings, which shows what the problem might be. He compares 3 generations of Toyota piston rings.

I'm not convinced the issue is fixable if you have the weakest type of oil control ring.

 

[Glenda W.]

R&P needs 4 oci’s minimum. Also a possibility the cylinders are scored and it’s to late for cleaning to help. Hyundai comes to mind.

 

[Astro14]

The 5 cylinders were usually quite good on oil consumption - I’ve got a couple that are well over 200,000 miles and use no oil.

Not a ring design flaw that I can see - depending on the year.

The 4 cylinder engines - especially the years 2013-2016 - have a problem. And Volvo extended the warranty on those engines.

 

[Ayrton]

The 5 cylinders were usually quite good on oil consumption - I’ve got a couple that are well over 200,000 miles and use no oil.

Not a ring design flaw that I can see - depending on the year.

The 4 cylinder engines - especially the years 2013-2016 - have a problem. And Volvo extended the warranty on those engines.

The last years of the 5 cylinder had the same problem as the first years of the 4 cylinder. The 5 cylinder was given the extended warranty for certain years too. Mine is a 14.

I really appreciate yours and everyone's encouragement.

I would stick with VRP if it didn't consume so much more than M1 0w40. I've used it 12,000 miles if you add up the OCIs now. I don't want to keep consuming so much.

It will be interesting to see if the consumption decreases when I go back to M1 0w40 (or HPL first), or if the problem has gotten worse while using VRP.

I wouldn't be surprised if it got worse. No hate to VRP, but when you have a flawed ring, the oil can't do miracles. I was about 4000-4500 miles a quart with M1 0w40 and at average 2000 with VRP (more like 2200 at start of oil change and 1800 towards the end of each oil change).


I am going to order HPL Euro 5w40 this weekend, unless someone believes that's a bad choice? I want the 40 weight since M1 0w40 did pretty well.

Edit, I know the PCV system can be a problem, but it's brand new.

 

[Brian123]

The last years of the 5 cylinder had the same problem as the first years of the 4 cylinder. The 5 cylinder was given the extended warranty for certain years too. Mine is a 14.

I really appreciate yours and everyone's encouragement.

I would stick with VRP if it didn't consume so much more than M1 0w40. I've used it 12,000 miles if you add up the OCIs now. I don't want to keep consuming so much.

It will be interesting to see if the consumption decreases when I go back to M1 0w40 (or HPL first), or if the problem has gotten worse while using VRP.

I wouldn't be surprised if it got worse. No hate to VRP, but when you have a flawed ring, the oil can't do miracles. I was about 4000-4500 miles a quart with M1 0w40 and at average 2000 with VRP (more like 2200 at start of oil change and 1800 towards the end of each oil change).


I am going to order HPL Euro 5w40 this weekend, unless someone believes that's a bad choice? I want the 40 weight since M1 0w40 did pretty well.

Edit, I know the PCV system can be a problem, but it's brand new.

You do realize that even though you put in a new PCV you also need to make sure that everything else is clear. What I mean is all of the hoses and whatever baffles are in the Valve Cover.

Follow me on this, and it will help you out, years ago I had a 1982 Chevrolet Monte Carlo that had oil usage issues, changing the PCV did nothing. I ended up putting on Edelbrock Valve Covers, I do not have the car, but I still have the Valve Covers out in the Shed. When I put on the Edelbrock Valve Covers the oil consumption stopped. I still had the original Valve Covers and where the PCV went into the Valve Cover seemed very restrictive, meaning from either side of the Valve Cover you could not see anything. Something was clogged, IMO

The Edelbrock Valve Cover where the PCV went in just had a piece of flimsy steel that I just took off. After that I had no oil consumption!

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

The last years of the 5 cylinder had the same problem as the first years of the 4 cylinder. The 5 cylinder was given the extended warranty for certain years too. Mine is a 14.

I really appreciate yours and everyone's encouragement.

I would stick with VRP if it didn't consume so much more than M1 0w40. I've used it 12,000 miles if you add up the OCIs now. I don't want to keep consuming so much.

It will be interesting to see if the consumption decreases when I go back to M1 0w40 (or HPL first), or if the problem has gotten worse while using VRP.

I wouldn't be surprised if it got worse. No hate to VRP, but when you have a flawed ring, the oil can't do miracles. I was about 4000-4500 miles a quart with M1 0w40 and at average 2000 with VRP (more like 2200 at start of oil change and 1800 towards the end of each oil change).


I am going to order HPL Euro 5w40 this weekend, unless someone believes that's a bad choice? I want the 40 weight since M1 0w40 did pretty well.

Edit, I know the PCV system can be a problem, but it's brand new.

Imo if vrp didn’t help then hpl isn’t gonna do much either. There’s a guy with an oil burning Hyundai suv that went down this same path here and didn’t get anywhere. I think something mechanical needs to be addressed in your Volvos engine

 

[Ayrton]

Imo if vrp didn’t help then hpl isn’t gonna do much either. There’s a guy with an oil burning Hyundai suv that went down this same path here and didn’t get anywhere. I think something mechanical needs to be addressed in your Volvos engine

I think in general you're most likely right. The odds are it won't improve. However, it has only had 12,000 miles with VRP, so doing a couple runs with HPL, you never know.

The second thing is if I can keep it from getting worse. Finally, if I can keep it from getting worse and go back to the consumption I had with Mobil 1 0w40, that would be a win because as soon as I put in VRP, it consumed dramatically more than M1 0w40.

I really wish there was a Euro R&P or I could get the Aussie 40 weight here.

 

[BornSlippy]

I think in general you're most likely right. The odds are it won't improve. However, it has only had 12,000 miles with VRP, so doing a couple runs with HPL, you never know.

The other thing is if I can keep it from getting worse. Finally, if I can keep it from getting worse and go back to the consumption I had with Mobil 1 0w40, that would be a win too because as soon as I put in VRP, it consumed dramatically more than M1 0w40.

The VRP could be cleaning slowly enough to dissolve some carbon, leaving chunks of carbon in the ring lands. The rings aren't free enough to move yet resulting in increased oil consumption.

Valvoline is recommending 4 OCI's to clean up an engine. Even on the low side that's like 20K miles.

I wouldn't give up just yet. I think the HPL is a great idea.

 

[demarpaint]

It will be interesting to see if the consumption decreases when I go back to M1 0w40 (or HPL first), or if the problem has gotten worse while using VRP.

Valvoline really should brew this in a 5W40, I'm sure there would be a lot of takers.

 

[wlk]

I think in general you're most likely right. The odds are it won't improve. However, it has only had 12,000 miles with VRP, so doing a couple runs with HPL, you never know.

The second thing is if I can keep it from getting worse. Finally, if I can keep it from getting worse and go back to the consumption I had with Mobil 1 0w40, that would be a win because as soon as I put in VRP, it consumed dramatically more than M1 0w40.

I really wish there was a Euro R&P or I could get the Aussie 40 weight here.

Add 1/2 to a full bottle of Schaeffer EP Moly to the 5w30 VRP. It will make it a 40 grade and you have the benefits of the VRP cleaning properties.

 

[Astro14]

You do realize that even though you put in a new PCV you also need to make sure that everything else is clear. What I mean is all of the hoses and whatever baffles are in the Valve Cover.

Follow me on this, and it will help you out, years ago I had a 1982 Chevrolet Monte Carlo that had oil usage issues, changing the PCV did nothing. I ended up putting on Edelbrock Valve Covers, I do not have the car, but I still have the Valve Covers out in the Shed. When I put on the Edelbrock Valve Covers the oil consumption stopped. I still had the original Valve Covers and where the PCV went into the Valve Cover seemed very restrictive, meaning from either side of the Valve Cover you could not see anything. Something was clogged, IMO

The Edelbrock Valve Cover where the PCV went in just had a piece of flimsy steel that I just took off. After that I had no oil consumption!

Yeah - not exactly how a Volvo works. On mine - the PCV system (and it is a system, not a valve) on his engine consists of a flame trap box with four connections, one to the block, one to the sump, one to the cylinder head, and one to the intake manifold and turbo inlet. The last one is about 2 1/2 feet long, and has two banjo bolts to connect it to the cooling system, so that oil vapor doesn’t condense.

Replacing this stuff costs about $400 in parts and a similar amount in labor as the intake manifold has to come off.

Here is a parts kit to do the job:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-pcv-breather-system-kit-c30-c70-s40-v50-l5pcvkit

Now, his is a newer version, and a bit simplified, but it is a whole lot more than a valve in the valve cover, like most cars.

But your sentiment is correct, in that you don’t just replace the external parts, you have to ensure that the passages in the block are clear. Here is a picture of passage through the block that leads to the sump on a 2002 - it’s cast in place and can easily get clogged up.

So, @Ayrton - who did the work on this?

Did they ensure the block passages were clean?

Because replacing the external parts isn’t enough in many cases.

 

[Ayrton]

It was a Volvo dealer. Close to $800. I don't think the original was even bad yet, it was an upsell during timing belt work. Actually I didn't even authorize it, but didn't make a fuss. I know what you mean though that they could have not checked passages.

However, hanging out at the Volvo forums and whatnot, these years of the 5-cylinder you're pretty much guaranteed to have this problem with the control rings. It's vastly more likely to be that. I've shared a lot of DMs with other 5 cylinder owners too. Many were able to get the piston / control ring warranty work as they always serviced at dealer. I am well above the 100k extension (114k), plus I don't actually consume enough. I believe my M1 0w40 and regular oil changes actually has me in a much better place. Most folks with these years of the 5 cylinder consume more than I do.

Update - HPL is on the way.