Copper water pipe connectors

[Duffyjr]

I posted about my new water heater and was going to ask about some fittings he used. The new tank was a couple inches taller than the old one so he cut the pipes in the middle and shortened them and rejoined them. Here is a pic of the fittings he used to join the two back together.

I've never seen these before, what do they call them and are they any good. I want to put the insulation back around them but want to make sure they don't leak first.

 

[chemman]

Looks like a NIBCO copper press fit coupling.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/NIBCO-1-2-in-Copper-Press-Fit-Coupling-Fittings/50157772

I've seen them used on Ask This Old House on PBS, and if I recall correctly, those guys really liked them.

 

[Duffyjr]

Looks like a NIBCO copper press fit coupling.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/NIBCO-1-2-in-Copper-Press-Fit-Coupling-Fittings/50157772

I've seen them used on Ask This Old House on PBS, and if I recall correctly, those guys really liked them.

Thank you sir. Well it looks like this is somewhat of a hot topic with plumbers, using these vs soldering. But it sounds like if these are going to leak they leak right away so I'll go ahead and put the insulation back on and check them now and then.

I will say these look like a time saver. I've laid a lot of block walls with water lines running up the inside and the time it takes a plumber to solder each extension.

 

[Lubener]

I wouldn't trust those press fit couplers in my home. I can't figure out why people try to tackle these jobs, don't have the skills to do it and have to rely on rinky dink devices to make it all work. Wait till that rubber o ring starts to break down.

 

[MasterSolenoid]

I put one of these Water Alarms on 'top' of my Water Tank.
Good to have no matter what method of joining pipes.
It gives me peace of mind if anything starts leaking.
Also have an Alarm at the 'bottom' of Water Tank.

 

[Oildudeny]

That’s a propress coupling there’s a few brands out there nibco and viega two I know of and worked with. I’m not really a fan of them sometimes they do have their advantages. The larger bronze colored nut is half of a union.

 

[PimTac]

Is that setup going direct to the tank or is there a flex pipe along the way?

 

[MrHorspwer]

I wouldn't trust those press fit couplers in my home. I can't figure out why people try to tackle these jobs, don't have the skills to do it and have to rely on rinky dink devices to make it all work. Wait till that rubber o ring starts to break down.

Yet your vehicle has many more o-rings, sealing far more dangerous and flammable liquids, in a much more hostile environment and nobody gives it a second thought.

 

[LazyDog]

They used those fittings on 4 inch water line for the safety showers at my old company in ~2006. I have not heard of any problems w/ this fitting so at least hey are in plain sight and not hiding behind a wall.

I do like them!

 

[Oildudeny]

Those pro-press fittings been used for over 40 yrs in Germany and throughout Europe. Again they have their pros and cons like everything. don’t let certain individuals on here sour the job because they’re hating life. If there’s no leaks and you’re happy with the installation leave it alone put your pipe insulation and enjoy.

Only way I can see the fitting leak.. 1)wasn’t properly pressed or installed which you would have known by now.. 2)there was excessive heat applied near the fitting such as any soldering took place I do see some blobs of solder.. that can compromise or shorten the life of the o-rings inside the fitting. 3)a defective fitting again most likely it would be leaking by now.

 

[Lubener]

Yet your vehicle has many more o-rings, sealing far more dangerous and flammable liquids, in a much more hostile environment and nobody gives it a second thought.

Dude, what would you rather have, a leaky joint on your car or one above your hot water tank that is just pressed together with 60 psi behind it when you are not home? The o ring joints on my vehicle's fuel lines are held together with a retainer and are not just pressed together. I hope that makes sense to you.

 

[Ws6]

I posted about my new water heater and was going to ask about some fittings he used. The new tank was a couple inches taller than the old one so he cut the pipes in the middle and shortened them and rejoined them. Here is a pic of the fittings he used to join the two back together.

I've never seen these before, what do they call them and are they any good. I want to put the insulation back around them but want to make sure they don't leak first.

View attachment 27165

That solder job is hideous, for one. I am actually in the EXACT same boat, as near identical happened. The solder jobs on my former piping were absurdly clean. Artwork. ABSOLUTE ARTWORK! Now look what has been introduced into the system.

Original work:

Replacement:

That said, I was installed the same make and capacity hot water heater as what went bad, and all parts and labor total was only $100 service fee. It is 30% more efficient, as well. I looked it up and the unit was $700ish. My home warranty really pulled weight. The guy just asked how old the heater was (15 years), and he said "Yup, you probably need a new one regardless, I'll order it". and that was that.

 

[doitmyself]

Is that setup going direct to the tank or is there a flex pipe along the way?

I believe the use of flex pipe varies by local and regional code. My water heaters are plumbed with soldered solid copper.

Regarding the use of these (not so) new fangled connectors, so be it. PEX, sharkbites, etc. will be interesting to see how they are in 40 years or so. Probably o.k.. I guess us boomers are biased to the old ways. I remember my thoughts when chainsaws became plastic instead of metal, LOL.

Unless doing an entire house, the cost of the crimp tools would rule out this method for a one time DIY repair.

 

[PimTac]

I believe the use of flex pipe varies by local and regional code. My water heaters are plumbed with soldered solid copper.

Regarding the use of these (not so) new fangled connectors, so be it. PEX, sharkbites, etc. will be interesting to see how they are in 40 years or so. Probably o.k.. I guess us boomers are biased to the old ways. I remember my thoughts when chainsaws became plastic instead of metal, LOL.

Unless doing an entire house, the cost of the crimp tools would rule out this method for a one time DIY repair.

I understand about the codes. The standard here is flex pipe for the final connection. Earthquakes would limit the use of solid connections even if the tanks are secured to the walls as is also the code here.

Another factor in having a solid connection is that it makes it more difficult to replace a tank DIY.

If I were in a area where earthquakes occurred then these types of connectors would not be my first choice. As mentioned already, things tend to happen when you are not at home.

 

[Cujet]

We use Permaswage fittings all over Gulfstream aircraft. They work wonderfully. It makes it easy to assemble sections of hydraulic line and the end fittings. Exceptionally few problems.

Your fitting looks similar. The only real difference I see is that copper tends to corrode. Corrosion under the o-ring sealing area could eventually be a problem.

 

[doitmyself]

@ PimTac: I think the pros view solid copper just like PVC. You just cut it out at replacement time and install new. Below is my workplace water heater install with no union couplers. And, the professional plumber screwed copper directly to the galvanized heater nipple. Granted, the nipple is lined with plastic to supposedly make it dielectric, but copper to steel still seems wrong. But, after 16 years it looks fine, so my DIY concerns are maybe unfounded? No real earthquakes in Michigan.......yet. A few tremors, LOL.

EDIT: @ Oildudeny . A walk around my workplace will reveal dates written all over the place, LOL. New garage doors, fan motors, timers, whatever. Reveals my laziness to look in my written records! Single phase.

 

[Oildudeny]

Nice install.. single or three phase unit? I noticed install date was written on the j-box cover.. I write the circuit number/ panel the breaker is located in and the voltage/phase on my j-box covers.

 

[JLawrence08648]

I've done A LOT of plumbing. So much I have my own B tank. I always solder. A correct solder joint will last the rest of the life of the house.

Story - I installed my hot water heater 5 years ago, 40 gal gas Rheem. (Tip - I always install with 2 couplings to make it easy to remove or replace.) I soldered all the fittings but needed an elbow or something. My car was in the shop, wife at work, Son-in-Law is a licensed plumber, works for a large corporation. I asked him to drop off an elbow on the way home from work, he passes my home to go to his. He came, left the fitting in the truck (lie), I went out to get it, got back he had cut out all my work! He then reinstalled using Press Fit, ProFit, fittings. It leaked. He re-tighten it. Stopped. Few days later leaked. He came back re-tightened it. Week later leaked, came back re-tightened it. Week later he gave my wife the tool at work, both work for the same company, I tightened it. Never leaked again. The story is not about me, it's about the fittings. Quick easy greater production for the plumber thus more money but the fittings also cost more! A lot more! Press fit uses a O ring to make the seal. I'm concerned about the longevity of this O ring.

 

[Lubener]

@ PimTac: I think the pros view solid copper just like PVC. You just cut it out at replacement time and install new. Below is my workplace water heater install with no union couplers. And, the professional plumber screwed copper directly to the galvanized heater nipple. Granted, the nipple is lined with plastic to supposedly make it dielectric, but copper to steel still seems wrong. But, after 16 years it looks fine, so my DIY concerns are maybe unfounded? No real earthquakes in Michigan.......yet. A few tremors, LOL.
View attachment 27190View attachment 27194View attachment 27195
EDIT: @ Oildudeny . A walk around my workplace will reveal dates written all over the place, LOL. New garage doors, fan motors, timers, whatever. Reveals my laziness to look in my written records! Single phase.

Plastic lined nipples on the tank do not have good isolating qualities and I have seen them corrode when mated to copper.. . But yours is still leak free after 16 years.
I am like you, I also have dates written everywhere.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Dielectric unions and a quick connect coupling stripped of its O-rings, soldered to the pipe.