Cooper CS4 or Michelin Primacy MXV4

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I agree, Jason. When I looked through the data there the Michelin was the clear winner. The only tire that came close was the Continental and that did not seem to hold any advantage in the wet on any of the tests - a critical attribute for the application here.

As seems to be the case in the tire performance tests I have seen, Michelin seems to be very good at building tires that perform competitively in the dry, and usually blow everyone out of the water in the wet. I remember a C&D comparison of performance tires a few years ago with the then current version of the Pilot. It was not the best of the test in the dry, but seemed to lose the least in the wet.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: troyh
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
In comparison Goodyear and some General models seemed to be a better riding and handling tire.

And from looking into the Primacy it is really more a long wearing touring tire than a high performance and more in the class of a Goodyear Assurance ComforTred, and I'm thinking the ComforTred would be a good option to the Primacy. It has good reviews and if you believe TireRack it ws rated higher and number 1 in its class.


Is this the only decent tire Goodyear puts out? I bought a set of tires last week (255/45/18 for Mustang) and read many reviews. Goodyear seems to be at the bottom of the heap in many categories. Next I need to find tires for truck (285/65/18) and again looks like Michelin LTX at the top. Goodyears again rated poorly in this size.


Honestly I don't get why some Goodyears (and other brands and models) rank low. I've known people who had "low ranking" Goodyears like the RSA or LS and LS2 and liked them very much. Most Goodyears I've had did most things well and I never found them lacking like I have for various other tire brands even "high rated" ones. I personally think most Goodyears are decent.

I don't put too much stock in tire ratings. A lot of the tires that rate lower are not long wearing models. I think some tires are overrated like the ComforTred and Primacy and others like the LS underrated. Also you will find two tires that are very similar have drastically different ratings. The ratings really don't add up when you look into them.

There's many factors at play, how long the tire model has been out and people are just down on worn out tires, if the tire model was available as a LRR OE and is being confused with the non-OE model etc. Surveys are ripe with subjectivity and inaccuracy.



Good/Year tires is another subject in itself.
smile.gif


I have had more G/Y tires than any two or three brands put together. Recently, I had G/Y tires on all 4 of my cars at the same time and have them on 2 right now(1 for summer only). The G/Y Assurance Comfort Tread(ACT's), thus far are the best G/Y tires I have owned without any real issues except for(too often) rebalancing is required(I can live with that). Besides that, they're exactly why I bought'em, smooth/quiet/comfortable, good looking, decent rating and I'm trying to always give G/Y another chance(40yrs worth)

That said, I can also say that since the early 70's, I have been buying G/Y tires and have been completely dissatisfied with most of them. I'd move on to other tire brands, mainly private label tires and lots of Kelley & Dunlop and have been in many cases, much happier but not completely satisfied either.

Of all the tire brands that i have owned, I won't list all of the ones that come to mind as there are too many, I have never been as happy/satisfied as I am today with our tire purchaces due to the reviews and ratings. And, those folks in our "CIRCLE", they have been quite satisfied as well, for the same reasons.

Typicaly, we don't buy Michelin but, try to get really good high rated/tested and reviewed tires w/o paying the Michelin prices. Sure, as mentioned earlier, if the price is close, we'd pick Michelin but, all too often, that isn't the case when we're ready to buy tires as it is for others.

Certain...Pirelli, Hankook, Yoko's, Generals, G/Y's, Kumho, Cooper are what we have been fortunate to purchace and have good success with. And none of us belive that any of these tire companies "whole line" of tires matches up with Michelins "whole line" of tires(or most of their line).

With these other tire companies mentioned, in our opinion(s), they only have a select few models that measure up with a Michelin tire. But, I don't want to start any battles here!
smile.gif
 
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I currently have Michelin Primacy MXV4 in 225/60/16H on my 2003 Outback wagon. For my uses they are a great match to my vehicle and my needs.

The Primacy MXV4 are comfortable in dry but I would not call them sporty. At least in a H rating. They are however a great quiet highway tire and provide plenty of warning when pushing their limits on twisty mountain highways. The will start squealing well before they break loose, which I appreciated.

For wet performance, as long as you pay attention to physics and drive like you have anything resembling common sense, I have never had them hydroplane in 20k miles.

Winter is acceptable for an all-season ground touring series tire. They handle powder snow great, wet snow acceptable, and ice/slush as mediocre as a non-winter tire will.

Currently have 20k on the tires with very minimal wear, expecting 50k on the low end and 70k on the high end depending on how winter traction goes as they wear down.
 
Originally Posted By: troyh
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
In comparison Goodyear and some General models seemed to be a better riding and handling tire.

And from looking into the Primacy it is really more a long wearing touring tire than a high performance and more in the class of a Goodyear Assurance ComforTred, and I'm thinking the ComforTred would be a good option to the Primacy. It has good reviews and if you believe TireRack it ws rated higher and number 1 in its class.


Is this the only decent tire Goodyear puts out? I bought a set of tires last week (255/45/18 for Mustang) and read many reviews. Goodyear seems to be at the bottom of the heap in many categories. Next I need to find tires for truck (285/65/18) and again looks like Michelin LTX at the top. Goodyears again rated poorly in this size.

My experience: I bought a set of GY TripleTred tires for the Volvo. It took seven to find four round ones. I dumped the tires before they were worn out because they rode like bricks. A friend had a private-label GY tire come apart with damage to his truck's fender and brake lines. GY finally paid for the repairs. GY has done nothing to earn my trust. Primacy MXV4 is looking like the best tire to buy soon for the sedan.
 
I'd say the wet performance is really the only area the Primacy objectively performed significantly better. That's not to say that wouldn't be important. But the the Michelin tire tested was a MXM4 and not a MXV4. I don't know how much difference that would make one way or the other, but it's hard to say how an MXV4 would've performed which is really the tire being discussed.

What is known is that the MXM4 is a different tire from the MXV4 and has a higher wet braking rating of AA and a lower tread wear rating. So to take the MXM4 and extrapolate or substitute how the MXV4 would do against the Goodyear ComforTred is an apple and oranges comparison. This causes me to question the objectivity and wonder if maybe a ringer and a fast one is being pulled.

Bottom line is we can't say the MXV4 will have the wet braking advantages of the MXM4.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Bottom line is we can't say the MXV4 will have the wet braking advantages of the MXM4.


The Primacy MXV4 may not have ANY wet traction advantage over the Goodyear. In fact, you'll note that I didn't compare the Goodyear to the MXV4 at all, nor did I even mention the other tires in that test. I only brought it up because one poster mentioned poor wet traction out of his Goodyear Assurance tires, and that IS an area that Tire Rack found as a weakness in the GYACT tires as well. It's relevant because the GYACT tires were recommended earlier in this thread. That's not to say that they have "poor" wet traction, but that IS to say that if traction and safety are of high priority, there are better choices than the GYACT.
 
All I'm saying is the MXM4 tire is different and has a lower tread rating and a higher wet braking rating of AA than the MXV4, so we can't assume the test results are valid for the MXV4. I'm not saying you are doing that but I'm sure it is being done. I don't know about poor but would maybe categorize the Goodyear ComfortTred wet braking as average and maybe its weaker spot though. And that might be important factor to someone. But like you said we really don't know if the MXV4 has any significantly better wet braking.
 
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I agree with everything you wrote.

The MXM4, I would assume, would perform better than the MXV4. The MXM4 looks to be a higher performance tire, and only available in lower profiles and larger wheel sizes. As I recall, it came out about a year after the MXV4 did.
 
Yeah and it appears the MXM4 may be the ideal tire but it's not available in the size I need
frown.gif
. Just the MXV4 is and I'm not sure that it's exactly what I'm looking for or is a better choice than Goodyear ComforTred, although the reviews seem to suggest it might sightly be. I just don't think the reviews are particularly trustworthy, overratting some tires and underrating others.
 
Good to know the Primacy MXM4's are highly ranked, at least by TR. They're currently atop the list to replace the fast-wearing and noisy OEM tires on the Cruze. Having a slightly sportier tire would suit the car better than the decidedly non-sporty tires on there now. The chassis/engine are very willing, but the present rubber ain't equal to the task.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Good to know the Primacy MXM4's are highly ranked, at least by TR. They're currently atop the list to replace the fast-wearing and noisy OEM tires on the Cruze. Having a slightly sportier tire would suit the car better than the decidedly non-sporty tires on there now. The chassis/engine are very willing, but the present rubber ain't equal to the task.


This is a statement well said!
Regardless of tires or vehicle, this is what most people should consider when buying their next set of tires. "PERSONAL CRITERIA!"

Take the package as whole(the vehicle) and add tires to the mix for the driving experience that is desired by the owner.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Good to know the Primacy MXM4's are highly ranked, at least by TR. They're currently atop the list to replace the fast-wearing and noisy OEM tires on the Cruze. Having a slightly sportier tire would suit the car better than the decidedly non-sporty tires on there now. The chassis/engine are very willing, but the present rubber ain't equal to the task.


I have a set of 215/45/17s I used on my 2005 Prius with suspension mods and the tires are fantastic. They are not the stickiest tire i've ever ran but more than enough for the 3000lb Prius. They were quiet, handled extremely well,rode well, etc.. The only drawback was the severe loss of mpg when upsizing wheels on the Prius.

Regarding the thread topic, My vote would be the Primacy MXV4. It is a great tire and does just about everything well for a normal car. High mpg cars like the Prius suffer a loss with this tire so I usually do not recommend it unless the person doesn't mind a mpg hit. Otherwise I shift them to the Continental ProContact with EcoPlus.
smile.gif
Maybe I can start recommending the AVID Ascend if they turn out well. I need to put a couple thousands miles on these tires before I write up a review.
 
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I myself use the michelins on my car and have since 01.. both of theses tires are good tires and the cooper cs4s have very good ratings and is what I would choose if couldn't get the michelins... the biggest difference would to look what the treadwear is on them the higher the number the better... they can put there mileage there but that don't mean a thing....when choosing a tire look for the treadwear number 620 and above is good...I like the 660 an higher preferably. I don't think u will be disappointed in either one of theses tires u choose..
 
Originally Posted By: cutter
CRtires09.gif



That CR test is a little old from '09. Do they have a more recent test?

I can't make much sense of CR's scoring. It seems they rank tires that have as many or more black circles, clear circles etc higher than another tire that even costs less. And if they are to be believed, what do the circles really mean. Of course "better and "less better" but what is the criteria and the difference? It seems kind of arbitrary and vague.
 
I'd like to see the numbers, but in any case the Michelin seems again to stack up better than the Coopers, even on "ride comfort".
 
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