coolant has to be 50/50? why

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
Clicked on the wrong buttton. What I meant to say was:

The water may still be going back
hotter, but it lost more heat, and will
be able to absorb more heat in the
engine.

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Not necessarily true. If it goes back hotter(lower concentration anti-freeze)) it "may" not pick up as much heat as the higher antifreeze concentration concentration (which will enter engine at a lower temp. Why?- Because the heat picked up is directly proportional to the difference between the bulk temp of the coolant and the temperature of the hotter surfaces it contacts. The greater the temperature difference the greater the heat transferred. Heat capacity is only one part of the equation. But again only a flow model depicting the basic parameters can tell for sure.

You may be right in some engine/radiator configurations-you may not be.

 

[Gebo]

You know the only thing that wears out in antifreeze are the rust inhibitors.

The "antifreeze" part of the antifreeze "never"
wears out. At least this is what my oraganic chemistry professor taught me in college.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gebo:
You know the only thing that wears out in antifreeze are the rust inhibitors.

The "antifreeze" part of the antifreeze "never"
wears out. At least this is what my oraganic chemistry professor taught me in college.

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Then how come they make those antifreeze checkers to test your freeze point? Often the level will get worse as the antifreeze ages.

 

[labman]

The antifreeze checkers are for those that top up with water instead of
fixing leaks all summer. Then in the fall, they have no idea how
much antifreeze is left. If anything the radiator should lose more
water than ethylene glycol. With no leaks, including the cap, a
cooling system should need very little topping up. In a year and a half
and 22K miles, I haven't added a drop to my 02 Cavalier. I don't
think I have added anything to my old truck since replacing the head
gasket several years ago. It may be time to replace the antifreeze, or
at least add corrosion inhibitors.

 

[widman]

You need a minimum of 30% to get corrosion protection, maximum of 68% to get maximum freeze proteccion (green stuff). After 68% the freeze protection goes DOWN. 50/50 is an easy number, that is why it is the most commonly sold or recommended. Also, the stronger the mix, the better corrosion protection, but - the traditional corrosion protection coats all surfaces, not just the ones that need it. This is insulation that reduces heat transfer. It also settles out of the traditional formulations, causing the need to add additives and pump failure. Needs to be changed every 18 months or so.
The pH depends on the product. Dex-Cool and Delo Coolant are lower pH products. They also only cover the parts that are tending to corrode, so they don't insulate, and the additives are disolved rather than in suspension, so they don't settle out. (The orange stuff is probably Dex-Cool (GM spec)).

 

[moribundman]

Does anyone know what the composition of VW/Audi G12 (pink) (and G12Plus/purple) is? I only know it's phosphate-free and can't be mixed with the previous G11 or any other coolant.

 

[digitaldrifter91]

would a normal 50/50 mix, mixed with a 'rust control' with rust control and a bunch of other studd....be a benifit or should a normal 50/50 be enough for anti rust and anything else?

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by digitaldrifter91:
would a normal 50/50 mix, mixed with a 'rust control' with rust control and a bunch of other studd....be a benifit or should a normal 50/50 be enough for anti rust and anything else?

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I still like to add the water pump lubricant. It is a water soluble oil. It is the kind that come in the 12 oz cans for like $1.50

 

[digitaldrifter91]

i never seen that...show me

 

[twentynine]

Hey Guys, I don't have it sitting right here in front of me, but I think thier is a sticker on the crossbrace of my '99 Dodge 1500 P/U that says. Radiator filled with 100% glycol type antifreeze under normal service no maint. is required for ?????? miles/years. Wording might not be exact but it's close. Now since it has been new I have changed the water pump because of a leak at 60,000 miles and the stock 195* T-stat to a 180*. I have always refilled with 100% antifreeze, never have I ever added water. The truck has never overheated. I changed the T-stat on recommendations from another forum, because I am towing 98% of tow capacity. Oh Yeah! It has got the green stuff in it, not the extended service orange stuff. That is what came in it.
What gives? Have I misread that sticker? Well at this time a night it might be a figmant of my imagination.

 

[Spector]

I think you have mis interpreted the sticker. Yes 100$ glycol antifreeze but mixed in a 50-50 solution with water. I think your owner's manual will probably clarify that. I have never heard of a manufacturer stating to use 100% antifreeze in an engine as it does not cool as effectively as the 50-50. 100% water is the most efficient but does not offer the benefits.

 

[unDummy]

You guys should read the info on waterless coolant.
I think that it is called evanscooling npg or npg+

It kinda contradicts alot of what is being said.

I myself will stick with the 50/50 and a bottle of water wetter. This has served me well for many years. No cooling problems here ever. I also change it yearly.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

FWIW, I choose not to buy distilled water to make the 50/50 mix. I do filter the water with a water filter then boil and cool it to mix with the coolant.

 

[digitaldrifter91]

boil....?

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Yea boil it. I dunno, it's the anal obsessive thing to do.

As I said there are many that would only use distilled water.

 

[twentynine]

Well Guys just woke up from my nap after working night shift last night. Check my owners manual and it says. Maintain cooling system at a 50% concentration of ethylene glycol antifreeze with water. A higher concentration of antifreeze is recommended if temperatures below -37*F are anticipated but not to exceed 75%.
Also has some other stuff about not adding additional rust inhibitors that may not be compatable with the radiator coolant.
Okay Guys, you all can call my wife and tell her I was wrong and have been corrected. Me I am going to be busy this afternoon working on the coolant system of my truck.

 

[Dave H]

I guess boiling is to kill all the micro-organisms?
I can't remember the site, but one I've read had a very interesting test. They put a bolt in a glass of regular water, and an identical bolt in a glass of pure anti-freeze (can't remember which glycol based type). Amazingly, the bolt in the pure anti-freeze corroded much worse than the one in water. Guess too much can be a bad thing in more ways than one.
I live in Louisiana, so I use a 30/70 of anti-freeze (green stuff) to filtered water (I have very hard water). Also use a bottle of Water Wetter as added insurance, but can't make any claims to whether it works or not. A flush is done every spring. I have not had any overheating problems, even when one of my cooling fans didn't work for a month in triple digit temps. Since water dissipates heat better than anti-freeze, I think a lot of people run too much anti-freeze and their cooling system isn't operating as efficiently as possible. This may not apply to people in the north with very low winter temps.

Dave

 

[labman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave H:

I live in Louisiana, so I use a 30/70 of anti-freeze (green stuff) to filtered water (I have very hard water). Also use a bottle of Water Wetter as added insurance, but can't make any claims to whether it works or not. A flush is done every spring. I have not had any overheating problems, even when one of my cooling fans didn't work for a month in triple digit temps.
Dave

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[labman]

This is twice in a week I have done this. What I meant to add to Dave's post is that:

Filtered water? Unless you mean reverse osmosis, ordinary filtering
and softening does not take out minerals, only exchanges them. The
salt you recharge your softener with ends up where ever you use the
water.

This still may not be a big problem in a tight cooling system where
you fill it once and are not adding more minerals each time you add
water to replace that leaks.

 

[poweguy]

As far as heat transfer goes, water is much better at it than glycol. The specific heat # for water is 4.183kJ/kgdegreeCelcius and glycol is 2.67kJ/kgdegreeCelcius. Meaning that for every kg of fluid to rise or drop 1 celcius degree in temperature, the stated quantity of heat will be transfered.
To figure out the specific heat of any mixture, just throw the numbers into an equation by proportion.
ie .50(4.183)+.50(2.67)=3.4265kJ/kgdegreeCelcius
This is for a 50/50 mix.

The constituents in the jug of anti-freeze provide corrosion control,scaling control, freeze protection, pump lubrication etc. The strength you decide to use depends alot on the climate you live in and what service you put your vehicle to. I run 50/50 and take it in to a service center every 2 yrs. It's an easy doityerself, but I like to think that a reputable service center will ensure the waste doesn't impact the environment.

Anyone not using distilled water in their rad is asking for trouble. Hard water (containing salts of calcium and magnesium) will cause scale on the walls of the cooling passages and the passes of the rad. This is an excellent insulator and will reduce both heat absorbtion in the block and heat rejection in the rad. It may also contribute to blockage in the small bore radiator passages (like the ones in my arteries when I down a double cheeseburger and poutine). You gotta maintain that cooling system because, in my experience, gauges and lights indicate trouble as your ride is rolling to a stop on the shoulder with steam pukin' out from under the hood