Coolant and ATF fluid changes on Toyota

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712
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
According to the GenuineFluids page at an online service garage called Arts Automotive: "Toyota is claiming [their Type T-IV ATF] does not need to be replaced under 'normal operating conditions'. We strongly disagree. We recommend changing Type T4 fluid every 15K miles, just like regular ATF. Type T4 is not particularly expensive, and the total cost of a transmission drain and fill is only slightly more than a motor oil change." [end quote] What do the Toyota experts here think? Should I just do a partial drain-and-fill (no flushing) of the ATF now after 24,000 miles on my '06 Camry, or just wait for 100,000 miles or perhaps 60,000 miles. The car is 3.5 years old, and I didn't notice any browning of the ATF when I looked at it yesterday via the dipstick. That was an ATF question, but the following concerns coolant. The web site for Arts Automotive (a service garage) has this to say about Toyota's Super Long Life coolant: "We recommend replacing [the] coolant every 2-3 years or 30K, even with [Toyota] Super Long Life Coolant. We think it's better to be safe than sorry. Maybe we'll sing a different tune when Toyota releases their Super-Duper Long Life Coolant :) [end quote] Why would the Camry manual allow you to go 100,000 miles or 10 years with the factory fill of Toyota Super Long Life coolant, but only allows you to go 5 years and 50,000 miles with every refill thereafter. I would guess both the factory fill and your own refills are pre-diluted with distilled water, not tap water--at least if you buy the jugs of genuine Toyota 50/50 coolant. Anyway, is 50,000 miles and 5 years still too long to wait? Maybe I ought to do a simple drain-and-fill (not flush) of the coolant every 3 years or 30,000 miles? --- htm
 
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Messages
4,998
Location
Milwaukee, WI
The T-IV ATF is billed by Toyota as a lifetime fluid, but it really isn't. It's a bit early at 24,000 miles to do a drain/fill, but every 30,000 miles for that seems reasonable. I did a drain/fill (4 quarts, replacing half) at 40,000 and it wasn't very clean. I'll be doing another at 60,000 and probably every 30,000 after that. The Toyota pink really is a very good fluid, and [unlike the atf] you can leave it in for 10 years or 100,000 miles. 5 years and 50,000 miles is shorter than I would go on that, but you certainly won't hurt anything by changing it sooner.
 
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beaver land EH?
Just drained and refill my wifey's 04 Camry with Castrol multi-import ATF and it restores the proper shift qualities on the gearbox. My suspicion is that the domestically-sourced T-IV may be sub-par to the factory fill elsewhere but needs to confirm with the Japanese OE lubricant supplier on this. Afterall: there's never such as thing called "lifetime" fluid in cars (and if you fall for that then it's up to you to pay the bill...). I don't wanna dwell on the subject of manufacturer's liability and blah blah blah...all I wanna say is that as chemical additives/base fluid properties deplete over time, you have to replace them anyways....so why bother? Q.
 
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2,248
Location
Chicago IL
Knowing what I know now, I would drain and fill the ATF on all my Toyotas (T-IV) at 15k regularly. Coolant different story. 50k with super, 30k with regular.
 
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4,622
Location
Western Washington
No such thing as lifetime fluid, IMO. It all deteriorates over time. I've already done AT drain and refills on both of our 06 Toyotas, and will do the coolant drain and refills on both this summer. I used Amsoil for the AT, and will probably use the Toyota pink for the coolant. To answer your question, yes you should go ahead and do a drain and refill now on your Camry. Doing a drain and refill on your coolant now is also the prudent/smart thing to do.
 
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2,796
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Michigan
hmm, atf is a lifetime fluid? when I went in for my 35k oil change, the guy at the counter insisted I do a tranny drain and fill. I gave him green light to do it. 70$ or so. on my way out I bought a case of the tranny grape juice. so how often should the toyo trany be drained and filled?
 

Built_Well

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712
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St. Louis, Missouri
 Originally Posted By: hate2work
I've already done AT drain and refills on both of our 06 Toyotas, and will do the coolant drain and refills on both this summer. I used Amsoil for the AT, and will probably use the Toyota pink for the coolant.
You must have done a full flush (not simply drain-and-fill) to get the original Toyota Type T-IV ATF out of the car before introducing the Amsoil synthetic ATF, right? I mean you can't just do a partial drain-and-fill to introduce the Amsoil ATF, I'm supposing? Otherwise one would have half Toyota ATF in the car and half Amsoil ATF, since the torque converter holds a whole lot of ATF (50 or 60 percent of the total) that isn't drained when doing a simple ATF drain-and-fill. At least I would think a flush would be required to transition from Toyota T-IV ATF to Amsoil synthetic ATF? I'm guessing a novice would really trash their transmission if they had half T-IV in there and half Amsoil?
 
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Messages
4,998
Location
Milwaukee, WI
No, you could have half amsoil and half T-IV and it would be fine. You'll never get all the fluid out with drain/fills. It's 50, 75, 88, 94% if you got half it out. But on my tranny, I get less than half out.
 
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6,987
Location
Michigan
For long life for both I would say 30,000 mile changes. If you want to save a little take the coolant to 50,000 miles.
 

Built_Well

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 Originally Posted By: bepperb
No, you could have half amsoil and half T-IV and it would be fine. You'll never get all the fluid out with drain/fills. It's 50, 75, 88, 94% if you got half it out. But on my tranny, I get less than half out.
Well, that's good to hear. What do most people do when they transition from Toyota T-IV to Amsoil synthetic ATF: a drain-and-fill or a full flush? Which method is recommended more? If a full flush, what flush companies can folks recommend? No way Jiffy Lube. I had my own nightmare there with my previous car. Would the Toyota dealer be a good and competent place to do the ATF flush? How about Amoco Transmissions, or some other company?
 
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4,622
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 Originally Posted By: Built_Well
 Originally Posted By: bepperb
No, you could have half amsoil and half T-IV and it would be fine. You'll never get all the fluid out with drain/fills. It's 50, 75, 88, 94% if you got half it out. But on my tranny, I get less than half out.
Well, that's good to hear. What do most people do when they transition from Toyota T-IV to Amsoil synthetic ATF: a drain-and-fill or a full flush? Which method is recommended more? If a full flush, what flush companies can folks recommend? No way Jiffy Lube. I had my own nightmare there with my previous car. Would the Toyota dealer be a good and competent place to do the ATF flush? How about Amoco Transmissions, or some other company?
Actually, many people do the flush themselves, although I've never done it. Doing frequent drain and refills accomplishes the same thing basically.
 
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4,450
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Kuwait
I always do a cooler line flush every 24,000 miles for my friends who own Toyotas. That way the fluid is all nice and clean, ready for another 24,000 miles of service. Coolant flush is also done at the same interval.
 

Built_Well

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St. Louis, Missouri
You all must be right. I guess it's not a problem to have half Toyota conventional T-IV and half Amsoil synthetic ATF in the car at the same time. The Mobil web site says Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is: "Compatible with mineral ATF fluids and all common seal materials." (I guess "mineral" means conventional/ pertroleum/ dino) As a result of its compatibility, you benefit from "Reduced concern in top-off emergencies and excellent leakage control." Mobil's site says Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is suitable for cars that require the following ATF fluids: Audi G 052 025-A2, G 052 162-A1 BMW LA2634 Esso LT 71141 ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402 Ford* MERCON*, MERCON V, MERCON LV All 2005 and earlier GM vehicles** Honda ATF-Z1* Hyundai SP-II, SP-III Idemitsu K17 JWS 3309 Kia SP-II, SP-III MAN 339F, V1, V2, Z1, Z2, Z3 Mazda ATF-III, ATF-MV Mercedes-Benz 236.1, 236.2, 236.5, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9 Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II, SP-III Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K Subaru ATF Toyota T-III, T-IV Voith 55.6335.XX (G607, G1363), Volvo 97340 ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 09, 14A, 14B, 16L, 17C *Not recommend for CVT applications, Mercon SP, Ford Type F **Mobil DEXRON-VI ATF is recommended for 2006 and newer GM vehicles and improved performance in 2005 and earlier vehicles, wherever DEXRON is specified." [end quote] ===================================================== Is Mobil's dino ATF called Mobil ATF 3309 the exact same stuff as Toyota's dino Type T-IV? If so, would it be better for me to drain-and-fill the '06 Camry with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, instead of the Amsoil Synthetic ATF, since I would suppose the Mobil dino ATF and the Mobil synthetic ATF have the same or very similar additive package?
 
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Built_Well

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Is Mobil 1 Syntheic ATF as dedicated to meeting Aisin-Warner transmission needs as the dino Mobil 3309? The page for dino Mobil 3309 says it: "meets original equipment manufacturers’ specifications for use in certain slip-controlled lock-up automatic transmissions. Mobil ATF 3309 is recommended for use in transmissions made by Aisin-Warner requiring a fluid approved against Type T-IV, JWS 3309, GM 9986195 and VW/Audi G-055-025-A2. These Aisin-Warner transmissions are used in CERTAIN domestic and foreign vehicles, including Toyota, Lexus, Audi, Saturn, Ford, Volvo, Volkswagen, Saab, Porsche and Mitsubishi."
 
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Built_Well

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712
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Also, "Mobil ATF 3309 is recommended for use in transmissions made by Aisin-Warner requiring fluids approved against JWS 3309 or GM 9986195. It is also recommended for service fill applications where Toyota T-IV, T4, T-III or T3 are called for." ================== It seems the Mobil Synthetic ATF tries to be all things to all vehicles (you saw its long recommendation list 2 posts above), but the dino Mobil 3309 ATF seems to be more specially concerned with meeting my Camry's Aisin-Warner transmission's needs. So I'm having a hard time deciding to drain-and-fill with Mobil 3309 or with Mobil Synthetic ATF.
 
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Built_Well

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 Originally Posted By: Quest
My suspicion is that the domestically-sourced T-IV may be sub-par to the factory fill...
That certainly caught my attention. Why do you think that?
 
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6,388
Location
Washington St.
The only "domestically sourced" T-IV IS Mobil 3309. That's what it is. The additive package for ATF to be near-universal is getting more universal every year. While not exactly able to meet the transmission maker's spec, these near-universal ATFs work very well in all the listed transmissions. There is a very easy way to test antifreeze. With the engine cool, put one probe of a digital voltmeter in the fluid in the radiator neck and the other probe on the battery negative terminal. If the voltage is in the 0.1 to 0.3 volts DC range, the corrosion inhibitors are good. If the voltage is 0.5 VDC or more, the fluid is due (or overdue) for a flush and renewal.
 
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