Convincing 10W over 5W Cold-Start Argument...

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Originally Posted By: outrun
This is a reason GM switched to 5W30 from 10W30 in the Series III 3800 V6.


Obviously, they recommend it to more engines than the 3800. My '93 3.1 has the factory 5W30 recommendation and that weight is a little harder to find in this area compared to 10W30.
 
Hey guys, just wanted to throw my thoughts in here. I think we would all agree that there are engineering trade offs when choosing an engine oil. There is no question that heavier oils have advantages as do thinner ones. We also have to remember that car manufactures choose an oil that is adequate in a very broad range of temps. Case in point is GMs change from 10w30 to 5w30. I promise that guys in florida are not burning out starters, or suffering from excess cold startup wear from using 10w30 vs 5w30. If you were in Maine, the story could be different. I guess the question really is not what is adequate, but what is the best. If you live in a warm climate and use 5w30, are you better off than if you use a 10w30 or even a 15w40. I thik it mostly it has to do with driving habbits and conditions. Over the years, i have been bouncing around between thin and thick and kind of settled somewhere in the middle. I live in NC so weather is mild. My point to all of this really is that i dont think you can look at your oil cap and say whatever is printed on it is the best choice for me. Again, the auto manufacture did not put that there for you, it is there to be adequate for anyone that buys that car. I do have an issue with one thing that was originally posted.

"Your temps of 0 are not bad. Our cold start testing is to start after an overnight soak of -20F and immediately go to 5000 RPM to check the oil pressure control valve agianst overpressurization of the sytem... Test engines go thru hundreds of cycles of this without a lube problem."

For most of us, this is only about a years worth of use.
 
Originally Posted By: pcfxer
Viscosity != Density. Beelzebob is confusing that.


Viscosity does not equal Density.
 
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
I live in the cold frozen north and all I can say is I'll take the 5 weight minor knock and rattle at startup over the 10 weight agonizing wait for the knock and rattle to quit.

Anyone that lives in the frozen north don't need no high falouten internet guru to tell them which oil is better for cold starts. Period.


Exactly! By definition of the SAE oil rating system, a 5w is essentially the same viscosity and has the same cold pumping/cold cranking characteristics at -22F that 10w has at -13F.

Put a bottle of each in a freezer for 24 hours and pour them out, and then tell me if you want a 10w-30 conventional in your engine when it's -10F.

I'm a recovering 10w-30aholic. Actually, I still use it in the summer, at least for my HM Blazer.

But after a few -15F cold starts with 10w-30, NEVER AGAIN!
 
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Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: pcfxer
Viscosity != Density. Beelzebob is confusing that.


Viscosity does not equal Density.


Programming owns you. != means "does not equal".


grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: pcfxer
Viscosity != Density. Beelzebob is confusing that.


Viscosity does not equal Density.


Programming owns you. != means "does not equal".


grin2.gif



Yep, got me with C. How about <> or /=

LOL
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Wonder how the cold flow of say,a 5W50 would be against a 5W30?


they won't be exactly the same but they should both be within the 5w spec
 
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Wonder how the cold flow of say,a 5W50 would be against a 5W30?


they won't be exactly the same but they should both be within the 5w spec


I've often wondered that too - in 'real world' operation, does a 5W-50 work just as well as a 5W-30 at very cold temps?
 
I have to agree with the guy for the most part. In Ontario I would likely use a 5w or 0w. But for most of us that have winters that barely go below freezing you'll never see the difference between a 5w-30 and a 10w-30.

I have my Redline 5w-30 sitting here ready to go in. I'm past my OCI just to wait until it gets a little colder to put it in. I'm running 10w-30 now. With Redline you lose nothing up top but gain a little cold flow. Will it make a difference in my climate? No way but it won't hurt so I might as well use it. I'll report back when I change it on a 32F day with an honest assessment but I guarantee there will be no noticable difference in time to pressure and flow and noises, etc.

If anyone cares, I'll start taking short videos of the oil pressure idiot light the first startup in the morning to get an idea of the 10w characteristics and then some videos of the 5wt.

I saw no difference going from the 0w-20 to the straight 30 ACD, I'm not going to see a difference from a 5w-30 to a 10w-30.

Of course certain members will get from this post that I'm recommending a straight 60wt in Alaska so go ahead.
 
Of course not.
If you graph out the kinematic viscosity (Widman's Graph) at no point is the 5W-50 as light.
In 'real world' operation just take a look at the 40C vis of the two oils, that will tell you how close any to oils are to temps down to at least -15C.
Heck even a 0W-40 is heaver than a syn 5W-30 unless it is very cold; say -30C. At all temps above about that the 5W-30 is lighter.
 
I don't buy the 'no difference at -40'.

And you do not need a big copper line.
An electrical gauge will also work great, as will a common small line mechanical gauge. We are not measuring flow, but pressure.
 
mva said:
Food for thought:


Some newer BMW's even have a moving redline that starts at 4,000 rpm and increases as the oil comes up to temperature.


That's very interesting,; I didn't know that. In what model year did that start?
Which models? Just the M series?
 
I believe it started in the E39 M5. Only M cars had it.

I know the E46 M3 has it, too. Not sure what other cars.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I don't buy the 'no difference at -40'.

And you do not need a big copper line.
An electrical gauge will also work great, as will a common small line mechanical gauge. We are not measuring flow, but pressure.


I agree somewhat but I've seen that a mechanical with the typical 1/4" nylon line doesn't show pressure change quickly enough. Back when I installed the last oil pressure guage it was mechanical because electrical was not accurate enough. However, I'm sure a lot has changed in nearly 10 years.
 
I just went from 10w-30 Redline to 5w-30 Redline 30 minutes ago. As expected on a semi-warm start on a 60 degree night, no detectable differences in any category. I got a vid of the oil pressure idiot light this morning. Maybe I'll do another to compare but there will be no difference. The only reason for switching is a planned trip to Tahoe this winter with -20 temps.
 
I am lazy.
Everything but the Truck gets 10W30, The Truck gets 10W40. I tow the fifth wheel with it.
Where I live in Washington state I don't think I have never seen it go below 10 F.
 
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