Contractor issues/sticky spot.

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Let me lay the facts down first

#1 The Contractor is a flooring specialist. a old highschool friend. (however) we have been out of touch until last year.

#2 there is NO AGREED PRICE.

Let me start this very long story off with "Jason" the Contractor, and i reconnected and he laid some carpet in a house for me. the job was done at under regular cost and the work was fair.

I invited Jason out to our new home and he raved about the options and the great things he could do.. So he offered a 10% over material cost install of complete flooring in our home.

This is where things started getting a bit sticky.. Jason absolutely drug his feet, He ripped up the old flooring and 3 weeks later we still didnt have new stuff.. i was very patient as i wasnt paying him.. ((However i did write a check as a good will gesture at the end of the project)) After alot of phone calls and begging he came out and in completed 90% of the flooring in a days time, however he left our stairs bare for another two weeks before he could get back out to finish. so i wrote a check and that completed this job..

While on the last Job Jason ranted and raved about what a "Custom top end job" he could do with our countertops and backsplashes.. I was sore about the flooring job however the end result turned out nice so other than a big time issue i had nothing to complain about.

My wife and i priced out granite countertops, back splashes, new stainless sinks.. the works.. and then i recalled Jasons offer.. He came out and looked it all over again, he quoted two days and $xxxxx in material.. it was about $1,200 less than having Lowes home improvement do the countertops and he was including the backsplashes.. It was a no brainer.. I also told him i was now a paying customer. (although a fee for labor was never discussed).

The Headaches start. After talking to Jason and we decided on the correct time for this job to happen, I scheduled a week off work (vacation time) a whole month in advance. 36 hours before the jobs start time i txt message jason asking what time to expect him and he informs me that about 2/3 of the building materials have not arrived and the job is now on "Hold".. Im pi**ed.. I used up a weeks worth of vacation time for this.. Moving on and after i cooled down a few days later i asked, "where are my materials" that i had already paid for in full in advance ? "i dunno, we are trying to track them all down now" I wait a week.. nothing, i call him and advise him he has 48 hours to either refund my $$ or locate my materials and give me a 100% start date.. He snaps to attention and within 24 hours he knows where my stuffs at and we have a new start date..

FRIDAY: Jason does arrive on the correct start date and he starts "Demo" he removes my sink and countertops in about 90 minutes (with me doing the heavy lifting) by 11:30am a emergency on another job site comes up and Jason bolts.. never to return that day

Saturday: Jason arrives 2 hours late and starts "the build" of my new countertops, He is moving so slow its pathetic.. then he comes out with he injured himself a few days prior and is having splitting pains.. over 8 hours he cuts the wood and attaches it to my cabinets.. I pay attention, and healthy professional could have done what he did in 2 hours.. his constant smoke breaks and breathers for pain take up the majority of the day.

Sunday: He starts installing the granite countertop and stone backsplash, Today he makes decent progress..

Sunday evening my wife and i come home and notice alot of whoops/errors/poor craftsmanship.. in these expensive materials we have paid for.. we are not thrilled at this point with the overall look of the job. However most can be fixed and he promisses to do so... and his quoted 2 day timeframe is growing..

Monday he applies sealant to the stone backsplash and he installs our new stainless sink, Thats it.. he does not plumb the sink.. another 8 hours and about 2 hours working.

Today Tuesday Jason is called away to a more urgent job and never comes over.. Our Job is not done, its only at about 70% at this point.. He called and promissed to do the 3Rd coat of sealant on the stone and plumb in the sink Wednesday.. and Friday start the grout work and Reinstall the outlets etc..

This brings my thoughts to my fellow BITOG'ers.. Put yourself in my shoes.. Yes i hired a "old friend" yes he's worked on my house for penuts before and did a decent job on the floors, However im looking at this job, and the overall job this go around, How do you judge what to pay this person ? He's hinted at $300 a day for his normall services but i think thats a ripoff considering everything.. I know there are alot of details here.. besides "dont hire a friend" what say you ?

Thanks otis.
 
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What's to say? I'm surprised you went for round two after the first one didn't work out so well. You trusted an "old-friend" and he abused the friendship. It's best to put details in writing and NEVER pay 100% up front to anyone you don't really know & trust.
 
I agree, however at this point im in it.. My wife and i have already agreed this is his last job for us.. so back to the question, what a fair way to evaluate how much to pay him ?
 
In 33 years I've learned one thing. I NEVER do business with any of my friends or family friends since for some odd reasons is then when the poop hits the fan.
 
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If you don't care about relationship tell him you want to see his home improvement license. He won't have one then tell him to sue you in court. He will lose because of no license.

If you want to be decent negotiate the 300 down to 200 and get rid of him.

Only use professionals.
 
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Originally Posted By: georgemiller
If you don't care about relationship tell him you want to see his home improvement license. He won't have one then tell him to sue you in court. He will lose because of no license.

If you want to be decent negotiate the 300 down to 200 and get rid of him.

Only use professionals.


I Completely agree, I want to pay him, i just think his hinted at price is a bit much, the half days he worked maybe $100 and the full days maybe $200 This is assuming the end result is atleast respectable work... In his defence he is a FLOORING PROFESSIONAL.. and after seeing the results (minus the drama) of our floors i assumed the countertops were a non issue since he said he could do them..

He is a old friend, i dont want to burn the bridge, however i think im done letting him work on my house.. esp after the coin we are dropping on materials..
 
I didn't get past Friday, before I decided I would FIRE JASON.

As far as how much to pay, talk to a contractor or two and find out their estimate for what Jason DID do, and pay him that much; it is fair for both sides. After all he did do some work.
 
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Take him to Judge Judy or the Peoples court. The show producers pay you both to show up, and the "winner" gets more but the loser is never in the hole.

It helps if both parties have entertaining fallabilities and no one side is perfect though.
 
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
This brings my thoughts to my fellow BITOG'ers.. Put yourself in my shoes.. Yes i hired a "old friend" yes he's worked on my house for penuts before and did a decent job on the floors, However im looking at this job, and the overall job this go around, How do you judge what to pay this person ? He's hinted at $300 a day for his normall services but i think thats a ripoff considering everything.


Pay by the total job cost, not by the day or by the hour rate. If he didn't quote you, then you two are going to have to agree on a total cost for the job. If it normally would have taken him 30 hours and he actually took 50 hours, then he should be paid for 30 hours of labor. Shouldn't have to pay by the hour for a super slow worker IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: georgemiller
If you don't care about relationship tell him you want to see his home improvement license. He won't have one then tell him to sue you in court. He will lose because of no license.

If you want to be decent negotiate the 300 down to 200 and get rid of him.

Only use professionals.


Home improvement license??? Never heard of it. Must be a NY thing.
 
I appreciate the advice. The more i think about it, maybe sitting down over a beer and chatting it out when the job is done is best..
 
Call someone else. Pay them to finish.
Once you know what its gonna cost to finish then you are in a better position to negotiate.
Don't pay him a thin dime until you know what its going to cost you on the back end to get it done.
 
Never ever pay for anything up front. Materials or whatever. He's got you pegged. he doesn't care about you and that's why he's bolted on supposed more urgent jobs. Especially on a Friday at 11:30am? Ya sure.
 
Only broke contractors ask for materials up front on such a little job.

$300 a day is a lot that's what I pay my good trim guy in CT! I don't know what the going labor rate is in your area but I suspect its about half.

Contractors play this game all the time, Saturday mornings pain was a hangover.

Next time buy materials yourself pay for labor, agree up front in writing!
 
Lesson learned. You should have stopped after the first job wasn't done to your standards.

Don't beat yourself up for it. With guys like Jason, guys like Mike Holmes will never be out of work. You do get what you pay or don't pay for.

Regards, JC.
 
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Yes, this was a lesson learned!

OP knew that the "old friend" was now "sketchy" about his work habits, and that was a HUGE red flag that you should have never used him again.

But I also agree that if someone you consider a "friend" treats you that way the friendship should be ended.

This just confirms to me more than ever that in the end most people can count the number of "true friends" they have on one or two fingers, the rest are just acquaintances in the end.
 
$300/day?!?

Most folks around here with the slightest skill want $50/hr minimum.

Not sure how you find any trustworthy, legal folks for less than $20/hr... to make the $150/day number.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Yes, this was a lesson learned!

OP knew that the "old friend" was now "sketchy" about his work habits, and that was a HUGE red flag that you should have never used him again.

But I also agree that if someone you consider a "friend" treats you that way the friendship should be ended.

This just confirms to me more than ever that in the end most people can count the number of "true friends" they have on one or two fingers, the rest are just acquaintances in the end.


I cant argue, i was hoping the first run of bad luck was just that.. this round #2 has opened my eyes.. not planning to make this mistake again.. Even at discouted rates for service, having my house a wreck for extended periods of time stinks.. im over it.
 
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