Incandescents are going to be phased out completely over the next 3 years. I prefer how incandescents light and work even if they do burn out quicker.I've been buying CFL lately hoping they'll save electric costs, last longer, but sometimes even name brand ones burn out quickly or hum. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41080442/ns/business-oil_and_energy/
Consumers not yet warming to new light bulbs
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I changed my house over to CFL bulbs a couple years ago and I don't think that I have had one go bad. Im quite pleased with them.
I too changed over most of my bulbs in my home to CFL bulbs, though I too have noticed that the claims made on the packaging about lasting longer are an over exaggeration. It doesn't matter what brand I have name-brand or no-name bulbs they never last as long or half as long as the company claims because they are all made in the same place...CHINA
But regardless of the longevity problems they still last longer than incandescent bulbs and they do save energy and i have the bills to prove it. But the real future lighting technology that is probably going to be even better than CFl's which we have to watch for are LED's use even less energy and they do LAST LONGER .
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CFLs dont work well at all when cold. We had several for exterior lighting and they take longer and longer to light up the colder it gets. Seems to stress them a lot as well. Several didnt survive the winter and were replaced with standards.
Cycling is another area they fail at. Lots of cycling like in a motion light fails them quickly.
I dont particularly care for turning the house into a Superfund site if one is dropped, either.
I agree that LEDs are where its at. They will have none of these problems. Once the cost becomes reasonable, they will be my choice.
My favorite light is the single Philips Marathon Household I have. I actually have no clue what type of light bulb it is. It lights up instantly with a dull orange hue not unlike a street lamp and gradually gets brighter to a warm white. I have used it as my night stand light for over a decade because the low initial brightness makes it a bit easier for my eyes to adjust.
Cycling is another area they fail at. Lots of cycling like in a motion light fails them quickly.
I dont particularly care for turning the house into a Superfund site if one is dropped, either.
I agree that LEDs are where its at. They will have none of these problems. Once the cost becomes reasonable, they will be my choice.
My favorite light is the single Philips Marathon Household I have. I actually have no clue what type of light bulb it is. It lights up instantly with a dull orange hue not unlike a street lamp and gradually gets brighter to a warm white. I have used it as my night stand light for over a decade because the low initial brightness makes it a bit easier for my eyes to adjust.
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I have a CFL in the vestibule of my home. when do I turn it on? when it's dark and I need to see. what does the CFL do when you turn on the switch? it glows dimly for about 2-3 minutes while it warms up. still can't see anything.
great, thanks a lot, real practical.
what they need to make is a ESP CFL that can anticipate when you'll need light and turn on a few minutes before so it's all warmed up.
I hate CFL's and I figure whatever 'savings' I'm getting is offset by the high intensity halogens I have in my kitchen and porch.
great, thanks a lot, real practical.
what they need to make is a ESP CFL that can anticipate when you'll need light and turn on a few minutes before so it's all warmed up.
I hate CFL's and I figure whatever 'savings' I'm getting is offset by the high intensity halogens I have in my kitchen and porch.
I'm not sure if we should be warming up to CFL's, I look at them as a temporary technology which will be replaced shortly by LED technology. We changed all our lights to CFL years ago and have experienced all the above issues. I think CFL's are the 8-track tapes of the lightbulb world... poor design and shortly replaced.
Who knows what will illuminate our homes 50 or 100 yrs from now?
Who knows what will illuminate our homes 50 or 100 yrs from now?
I can't stand CFL's personally so I've been trying to stock up on incandescents while I can. I don't like the light they give off, I don't like the warm up time, I don't like the chemicals used in them, and I don't feel they last significantly longer than incandescents.
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
I'm not sure if we should be warming up to CFL's, I look at them as a temporary technology which will be replaced shortly by LED technology. We changed all our lights to CFL years ago and have experienced all the above issues. I think CFL's are the 8-track tapes of the lightbulb world... poor design and shortly replaced.
Who knows what will illuminate our homes 50 or 100 yrs from now?
I tend to agree about CFL.
I find the best CFL's are Noma sold at our Canadian Tire stores.
They have the best light color in my opinion and although they do still "warm up" they are bright enough to see just fine as soon as you turn them on. Full brightness is only maybe 30 seconds but unless you are paying attention, its hard to even tell they get brighter.
Have had some of these go bad, but for the most part all the original ones I've changed are still working.
I'm not sure if we should be warming up to CFL's, I look at them as a temporary technology which will be replaced shortly by LED technology. We changed all our lights to CFL years ago and have experienced all the above issues. I think CFL's are the 8-track tapes of the lightbulb world... poor design and shortly replaced.
Who knows what will illuminate our homes 50 or 100 yrs from now?
I tend to agree about CFL.
I find the best CFL's are Noma sold at our Canadian Tire stores.
They have the best light color in my opinion and although they do still "warm up" they are bright enough to see just fine as soon as you turn them on. Full brightness is only maybe 30 seconds but unless you are paying attention, its hard to even tell they get brighter.
Have had some of these go bad, but for the most part all the original ones I've changed are still working.
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My house is about 90% CFL now, has been for years. I haven't had any problem with them. Can't wait to go to LED lighting once the prices get reasonable.
+2 for the CFL Noma brand from CT.
I like CFL's but they don't belong everywhere. I have a rule of thumb when choosing to install CFLs or not.
If the fixture is subject to colder temps than +5C or are going to be used for 10-15mins (or high frequency cycle on/off) or less, I go with incandescent bulb. Anywhere else gets a CFL. After my research these are the conditions that significantly shorten a CFL bulb lifespan.
I like CFL's but they don't belong everywhere. I have a rule of thumb when choosing to install CFLs or not.
If the fixture is subject to colder temps than +5C or are going to be used for 10-15mins (or high frequency cycle on/off) or less, I go with incandescent bulb. Anywhere else gets a CFL. After my research these are the conditions that significantly shorten a CFL bulb lifespan.
Incandescents are dinosaurs - but govmt forced phase out? What is this Soviet Union? Many of my lamps wont takle a CFL and 2 have caught on fire in service. Garbage china made junk. Walmart better be ready to take back all my CFLs after they burn out in 3-5 months. I'm writing the install date on the base in Sharpie(r)... And my Senator.
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When the first came out on the market I was given a case of them by one of my clients and I have been using them since. I have had a few burn out. I do not use them to be green I use then because they use less electrity. There are cheap made in China ones that burn out
some light fixtures won't accept CFL's, so now you have to replace fixtures, putting more garbage into landfills.
I don't have a lot of hope in LED's either. they still haven't figured out the dispersion issue. they just can't spread the light wide enough, they tend to be focused.
I laughed when I saw new LED traffic lights were getting covered w/ snow/ice because they don't get warm to melt it off. great engineering on that one.
I don't have a lot of hope in LED's either. they still haven't figured out the dispersion issue. they just can't spread the light wide enough, they tend to be focused.
I laughed when I saw new LED traffic lights were getting covered w/ snow/ice because they don't get warm to melt it off. great engineering on that one.
I've had CFL's since 02 maybe sooner. When where they first put on the market? I think even back then they were made in USA. For the most part have had really good luck. On occasion one will good bad in a short amount of time out of a batch but the rest last a long time. I know for a fact that when I moved in with the wife around 04-05 I replaced most of the old bulbs with CFL's. A few are still in service but most went out a year ago. 5 years on heavily used lights isn't bad. My grandma had better luck with hers. In 03 I replaced alot of old bulbs with CFL's. Majority of those are still in service. Even she can't believe how long they've lasted.
FYI they have different styles of CFL's. I've never had a problem getting one to fit.
FYI they have different styles of CFL's. I've never had a problem getting one to fit.
You have to overrate the "watt replacement" so to replace a 60 watt go for a "75" or "100" that take around 18 watts. Then when they're "dim" that's what you want, and the full brightness is an improvement.
There's a race to the bottom to commoditize them; if they can start differentiating themselves as "premium" with better light spectrum, less flicker etc and build brand recognition there'd be more success.
They won't get rid of incandesent bulbs, they'll just be "special service" or "rough duty" or whatever.
There's a race to the bottom to commoditize them; if they can start differentiating themselves as "premium" with better light spectrum, less flicker etc and build brand recognition there'd be more success.
They won't get rid of incandesent bulbs, they'll just be "special service" or "rough duty" or whatever.
The way I see it (subjective observations, so YMMV): We North Americans are blessed with high living standards, low energy costs (until recently when fossil fuel cost went through the roof), which typically lead to an inefficient lifestyle that perpetuates to no end.
Our society promotes inefficiency: examples: instead of mass public transportations and infrastructures such as community trains, buses, etc. NA been relying on personal mode of transportation where typical drivers own cars of engine size over 1.6L, carrying 1 occupant (driver) while commuting to work or other activities. Change in lifestyles and society also comes so slowly (maybe due to certain behaviours, or lack of awareness, or refusal to change, etc.) such as maximising efficiency for commute (taking public transportation to work and back, carpool, planning 1 single trip for grocery shopping, seeking alternative routes during busy work hours to avoid traffic congestions (reduce unnecessary idling), improve energy efficiency (i.e. reduce unnecessary electricity consumption per person (switching to CFL from incandescent lighting is one of them), conserving certain precious natural resources such as water (using water saving devices for shower heads and/or 13L toilet flushes, etc.). Instead: people typically spoiled by their "wants" instead of "needs" such as 1 single occupant driving a large displacement car while stuck in the traffic fuming; insisted in partaking energy intensive activities such as letting a TV on w/o anyone actually watching it, or insist in using incandescent bulbs (unless you have certain health-related issues with it) instead of converting to using higher efficiency CFL or LED bulbs, etc. All in all: the net energy consumption per person here in NA far exceeds many folks who are living in developing countries, or even when compared to our European industrialised/post-industrialised counterparts.
As our mother earth stressed by overpopulation, food, natural resources, energy production will subsequently becomes stressed and will be reflective on the market (in terms of increased in prices, etc.)
Awareness aside: those who actively participates in lowing energy footprint will ultimately stay ahead of the game; those who are complacent or resort not to do anything will gradually fall behind.
Those who choose not to deal with this will become worse off than many others who choose to do something about it.
Remember: there are "needs" and there are "wants". I see more folks in this neighbourhood "wants" a bigarsh pickup truck with massive Vee8 or diesel with Banks mod chips fuming up and down the neighbourhood with driver alone..not even a work/haul trunk the way I see it. Does that makes any sense?
Yeah, you may argue that (a)they have the money to spare/spend on resources for their own consumptions and I'm in no way disputing that part. My arguement is that we as a community, becomes resource-poor as 1 single consumer chose to use resource in an otherwise inefficient manner, and all the associated "hidden costs" such as pollution, etc. (remember: electricity still came from coal-firing power plants elsewhere out there, and all the automobile exhaust still pollutes the air that we all share and breathe), I call that arrogance, or utter lack of responsibility.
Yes, I must admit that current technology to improve efficiency (such as Hybrid cars, CFLs, etc.) are not perfect solutions to the problems we are facing but definitely a step towards the right direction. This is a force that will drive newer, better technology (such as full electric cars, LED lighting, etc.) to mature and comes down in pricing over time as more and more investors and manufacturers invest into these developments.
I, for one, already converted 87% of the lighting in our house to CFLs (mostly 9Ws or 13Watts, except motion sensor lights which have to be filament based due to outdoor temp problems); replaced inefficient ceiling ventilation fan (Broan/Nu-tone, 80cfm consuming >130Watts running 24/7/365) with energy efficient Panasonic versions (80cfm, 14.7Watts), etc. I tend to do public commute during weekdays, and save all my chores and grocery shopping to weekends (tally a "shopping list" and plan the trip in my fit), etc. I use water-saving showerheads and wash clothes in cold water, etc. I have, through the years, upgraded my home office computer network to using fairly efficient switches, firewalls, etc.
although our regional power utility charge is relatively cheep when compared to many regions in our area (not mentioning Cali), but I already reap the benefits of being one of the most energy-efficient homes in our neighbourhood (with bills so low, we are the envy of our neighbourhood with family of 4).
Bottomline: CFL may not be a perfect solution but it definitely helps in improving energy efficiency. Whether you opt to follow (or lead) or you opt out of the options entirely, that's up to you.
I could see that while NA in general has been a leader in terms of many global developments including certain technology sectors, etc. but when it comes to energy consumption/efficiency per capita (or even per person), we are definitely trailing behind...
Q.
Our society promotes inefficiency: examples: instead of mass public transportations and infrastructures such as community trains, buses, etc. NA been relying on personal mode of transportation where typical drivers own cars of engine size over 1.6L, carrying 1 occupant (driver) while commuting to work or other activities. Change in lifestyles and society also comes so slowly (maybe due to certain behaviours, or lack of awareness, or refusal to change, etc.) such as maximising efficiency for commute (taking public transportation to work and back, carpool, planning 1 single trip for grocery shopping, seeking alternative routes during busy work hours to avoid traffic congestions (reduce unnecessary idling), improve energy efficiency (i.e. reduce unnecessary electricity consumption per person (switching to CFL from incandescent lighting is one of them), conserving certain precious natural resources such as water (using water saving devices for shower heads and/or 13L toilet flushes, etc.). Instead: people typically spoiled by their "wants" instead of "needs" such as 1 single occupant driving a large displacement car while stuck in the traffic fuming; insisted in partaking energy intensive activities such as letting a TV on w/o anyone actually watching it, or insist in using incandescent bulbs (unless you have certain health-related issues with it) instead of converting to using higher efficiency CFL or LED bulbs, etc. All in all: the net energy consumption per person here in NA far exceeds many folks who are living in developing countries, or even when compared to our European industrialised/post-industrialised counterparts.
As our mother earth stressed by overpopulation, food, natural resources, energy production will subsequently becomes stressed and will be reflective on the market (in terms of increased in prices, etc.)
Awareness aside: those who actively participates in lowing energy footprint will ultimately stay ahead of the game; those who are complacent or resort not to do anything will gradually fall behind.
Those who choose not to deal with this will become worse off than many others who choose to do something about it.
Remember: there are "needs" and there are "wants". I see more folks in this neighbourhood "wants" a bigarsh pickup truck with massive Vee8 or diesel with Banks mod chips fuming up and down the neighbourhood with driver alone..not even a work/haul trunk the way I see it. Does that makes any sense?
Yeah, you may argue that (a)they have the money to spare/spend on resources for their own consumptions and I'm in no way disputing that part. My arguement is that we as a community, becomes resource-poor as 1 single consumer chose to use resource in an otherwise inefficient manner, and all the associated "hidden costs" such as pollution, etc. (remember: electricity still came from coal-firing power plants elsewhere out there, and all the automobile exhaust still pollutes the air that we all share and breathe), I call that arrogance, or utter lack of responsibility.
Yes, I must admit that current technology to improve efficiency (such as Hybrid cars, CFLs, etc.) are not perfect solutions to the problems we are facing but definitely a step towards the right direction. This is a force that will drive newer, better technology (such as full electric cars, LED lighting, etc.) to mature and comes down in pricing over time as more and more investors and manufacturers invest into these developments.
I, for one, already converted 87% of the lighting in our house to CFLs (mostly 9Ws or 13Watts, except motion sensor lights which have to be filament based due to outdoor temp problems); replaced inefficient ceiling ventilation fan (Broan/Nu-tone, 80cfm consuming >130Watts running 24/7/365) with energy efficient Panasonic versions (80cfm, 14.7Watts), etc. I tend to do public commute during weekdays, and save all my chores and grocery shopping to weekends (tally a "shopping list" and plan the trip in my fit), etc. I use water-saving showerheads and wash clothes in cold water, etc. I have, through the years, upgraded my home office computer network to using fairly efficient switches, firewalls, etc.
although our regional power utility charge is relatively cheep when compared to many regions in our area (not mentioning Cali), but I already reap the benefits of being one of the most energy-efficient homes in our neighbourhood (with bills so low, we are the envy of our neighbourhood with family of 4).
Bottomline: CFL may not be a perfect solution but it definitely helps in improving energy efficiency. Whether you opt to follow (or lead) or you opt out of the options entirely, that's up to you.
I could see that while NA in general has been a leader in terms of many global developments including certain technology sectors, etc. but when it comes to energy consumption/efficiency per capita (or even per person), we are definitely trailing behind...
Q.
Most of my bulbs are these CFL or low wattage tube fluorescent, and I had tried some LED when they first came to market. We are frugal: We might have 2 lamps on at night, run our house cold in Winter(60-62degF), burn wood from tress on our lot that were felled in storms, use a gas cooking stove, use coolers on the porch as food freezers, recycle most everything, repair stuff instead of buy new, etc, etc. I live in a little log cabin on a hill bordering the state forest. Our electricity bill is usually under 4O bucks/month. Still, I dont want the gvmt mandating the use of mercury bearing CF lamps over incandescent - they may promote, but never mandate!
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Just a bit of side facts:
Our house was built in 2004 (highly efficient ones, to 2004 construction code); with thicker thermal barrier all over the place and requires a fan of up to 80cfm size to be runningn 24/7/365 to expel stale air, etc. The truely sad thing was that it came with R38 based 6" pot lights that regularly accepts up to 150Watts of incandescent reflector light bulbs, which is not only expensive to replace, but the service life (typically 1000hrs nominal, most fail around 500hrs or so) and electricity consumption was so pathetic that I immediatly replaced all 26 of them with a trim with aluminium reflectors built in and retrofit them all with CFLs of either 9W or 13W(13W is actually very bright as far as area lighting's concerned) and was able to save electricity from that. In about 8mnths time: I already saved enough on electricity bills that paid off for the cost of the replacement relfector pot light trims (a few hundred bucks in all) and continues to save after that.
Also: got rid of that noisy(motor hums), crazy inefficient ceiling ventilating fan and replace it with a high efficiency ball-bearing Panasonic fan was also a wise choice, and I can sleep very well these days due to no motor hum.
Q.
Our house was built in 2004 (highly efficient ones, to 2004 construction code); with thicker thermal barrier all over the place and requires a fan of up to 80cfm size to be runningn 24/7/365 to expel stale air, etc. The truely sad thing was that it came with R38 based 6" pot lights that regularly accepts up to 150Watts of incandescent reflector light bulbs, which is not only expensive to replace, but the service life (typically 1000hrs nominal, most fail around 500hrs or so) and electricity consumption was so pathetic that I immediatly replaced all 26 of them with a trim with aluminium reflectors built in and retrofit them all with CFLs of either 9W or 13W(13W is actually very bright as far as area lighting's concerned) and was able to save electricity from that. In about 8mnths time: I already saved enough on electricity bills that paid off for the cost of the replacement relfector pot light trims (a few hundred bucks in all) and continues to save after that.
Also: got rid of that noisy(motor hums), crazy inefficient ceiling ventilating fan and replace it with a high efficiency ball-bearing Panasonic fan was also a wise choice, and I can sleep very well these days due to no motor hum.
Q.
During Xmas month: my electricity bill was only 8.8 bucks! (tax included).
of course: I have LED based Xmas lights with a digital timer (only need to keep it on for 3 hrs per nite for entertaining our kids mainly) and because we spent so much time outside of the house (Xmas shopping, visiting friends, etc.) we ended up not using any electicity at all, except a 9Watt CFL porch light for security reasons (cost 2 bux to purchase, typically lasts 5000hrs)
Q.
@ARCO: perhaps we can start some new topics RE: how to improve energy efficiency in our house, lower energy consumption (personally, etc.) or similar?
of course: I have LED based Xmas lights with a digital timer (only need to keep it on for 3 hrs per nite for entertaining our kids mainly) and because we spent so much time outside of the house (Xmas shopping, visiting friends, etc.) we ended up not using any electicity at all, except a 9Watt CFL porch light for security reasons (cost 2 bux to purchase, typically lasts 5000hrs)
Q.
@ARCO: perhaps we can start some new topics RE: how to improve energy efficiency in our house, lower energy consumption (personally, etc.) or similar?
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