Sounds good to me! Be forewarned this be a massive ship to steer away from those black rocks that lie steadfast but ahead, sleeping and waiting.
Consumers not yet warming to new light bulbs
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I had my first CFL burn out in the early fall, and based on my calculations, I think I got the expected life out of it.
I'm currently running 2 in outdoor fixtures. I turn the outside lights on when we change time in the fall, and off when we change in the spring, so they're on 24x7 for that time. Since the CFL's are always on, the cold weather/warm-up problem is not an issue, along with too frequent cycling, which is probably how I got the long life out of that bulb.
Thanks to a utility program in Illinois, I was able to get a mess of CFL's from Menard's for a little less than $0.25 each. They're no-name, made in China lights, but the bulb I mentioned at the start of my post was also a no-name, made in China bulb, so I expect to get the same service out of these bulbs.
I'm currently running 2 in outdoor fixtures. I turn the outside lights on when we change time in the fall, and off when we change in the spring, so they're on 24x7 for that time. Since the CFL's are always on, the cold weather/warm-up problem is not an issue, along with too frequent cycling, which is probably how I got the long life out of that bulb.
Thanks to a utility program in Illinois, I was able to get a mess of CFL's from Menard's for a little less than $0.25 each. They're no-name, made in China lights, but the bulb I mentioned at the start of my post was also a no-name, made in China bulb, so I expect to get the same service out of these bulbs.
Over 98% of CFLs are currently made in China, due to low labour costs and pollution regulation (still requires mercury to come into contact with the workers/environment).
GE tried to retrofit one of their incandescent light bulb factory to producing CFLs on the East Coast in the states back in 2006 or 2008 but ended up not doing so due to the elevated costs per light bulb, which, in turn, works out to approx. 25cents more when compared to China made ones.
Chinese ones are not made equally in terms of quality: most of them typically lasts approx. 2~3000hrs before they die (electronic ballasts) of heat-related failures (mostly insulation-related or lytic cap inside). I've came across a high quality Chinese made ones that really promising, citing the use of Panasonic 10,000hr@105C lytic capacitor within and I think the brand is called FEIT or so. All others are, IMHO carp, even those sub-OEMed for GeeEee, etc.
I have decent luck with Ikea ones: particularly favouring the 9Watt ones (2bux each, can't go wrong with them for GeeEee would have costs me close to 3bux each), and typically lasts 5~7000hrs each). How do I know? I've been running some of them 24/7/365 for years and have each of the replacement once labelled with date installed to keep track of their service life.
Q.
GE tried to retrofit one of their incandescent light bulb factory to producing CFLs on the East Coast in the states back in 2006 or 2008 but ended up not doing so due to the elevated costs per light bulb, which, in turn, works out to approx. 25cents more when compared to China made ones.
Chinese ones are not made equally in terms of quality: most of them typically lasts approx. 2~3000hrs before they die (electronic ballasts) of heat-related failures (mostly insulation-related or lytic cap inside). I've came across a high quality Chinese made ones that really promising, citing the use of Panasonic 10,000hr@105C lytic capacitor within and I think the brand is called FEIT or so. All others are, IMHO carp, even those sub-OEMed for GeeEee, etc.
I have decent luck with Ikea ones: particularly favouring the 9Watt ones (2bux each, can't go wrong with them for GeeEee would have costs me close to 3bux each), and typically lasts 5~7000hrs each). How do I know? I've been running some of them 24/7/365 for years and have each of the replacement once labelled with date installed to keep track of their service life.
Q.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Sounds good to me! Be forewarned this be a massive ship to steer away from those black rocks that lie steadfast but ahead, sleeping and waiting.
Wholeheartedly agreed ARCO. So long as we are mindful/conscious about not making this into some political postings, we should be able to steer clear ...afterall: we share the same passion here so why not share the info?
Discussions away...
Q.
Sounds good to me! Be forewarned this be a massive ship to steer away from those black rocks that lie steadfast but ahead, sleeping and waiting.
Wholeheartedly agreed ARCO. So long as we are mindful/conscious about not making this into some political postings, we should be able to steer clear ...afterall: we share the same passion here so why not share the info?
Discussions away...
Q.
Ah, that would explain my luck then, the bulb I'm talking about was made by Feit.
Originally Posted By: Quest
How do I know? I've been running some of them 24/7/365 for years and have each of the replacement once labelled with date installed to keep track of their service life.
Q.
24/7 is easy service for lights. I've seen incandescents last 5 or more years if they aren't turned off.
How do I know? I've been running some of them 24/7/365 for years and have each of the replacement once labelled with date installed to keep track of their service life.
Q.
24/7 is easy service for lights. I've seen incandescents last 5 or more years if they aren't turned off.
Lot's of hype involved here.
THERE IS NO BAN on incandescent bulbs. The newer standards will change them to a more efficient design. Some already are available.
http://www.startribune.com/blogs/90608939.html
THERE IS NO BAN on incandescent bulbs. The newer standards will change them to a more efficient design. Some already are available.
http://www.startribune.com/blogs/90608939.html
Originally Posted By: cchase
24/7 is easy service for lights. I've seen incandescents last 5 or more years if they aren't turned off.
Regrettably: 24/7 on a CFL that came self-contained with heat-sensitive electronic components (in this case: electronic ballast built in) is a harsh environment to survive. On the flip side: the energy saved with a 9Watt CFL running 24/7/365 when compared to an incandescent filament light bulb of45Watts or similar would be comparable, if not better, citing a rough service (thicker filament) lightbulb of similar brightness would costs about 1~2bux here in our area; as opposed to a Philips or Ikea 9Watter which costs 2bux and still lasts 5000hrs easily.
Besides, we save by not committed to more associated pollution emissions (mercury, sulphur, etc.) from coal-firing power plants then we have to when compared to the incandescent bulb.
Q.
24/7 is easy service for lights. I've seen incandescents last 5 or more years if they aren't turned off.
Regrettably: 24/7 on a CFL that came self-contained with heat-sensitive electronic components (in this case: electronic ballast built in) is a harsh environment to survive. On the flip side: the energy saved with a 9Watt CFL running 24/7/365 when compared to an incandescent filament light bulb of45Watts or similar would be comparable, if not better, citing a rough service (thicker filament) lightbulb of similar brightness would costs about 1~2bux here in our area; as opposed to a Philips or Ikea 9Watter which costs 2bux and still lasts 5000hrs easily.
Besides, we save by not committed to more associated pollution emissions (mercury, sulphur, etc.) from coal-firing power plants then we have to when compared to the incandescent bulb.
Q.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
and 2 have caught on fire in service
When you guys say "burned out," is this what you mean?
I have had a few CFLs just quit working, but I also had three go out with smoke and a terrible, chemical stench that lingers in the room for a day or so and in the fixture for a lot longer. It sort of smells like burning chlorine. Two were Feit bulbs about 3-4 years old, and one was a much younger Sylvania. My wife was in the (small, windowless) bathroom when two of them let go, so she's no fan of CFLs. The fumes smell seriously toxic, and the plastic base is charred around the tube openings.
I liked the Sylvanias because they were 3000K color temperature. I still had receipts for a couple that just quit, and sent them back to Sylvania. They sent back two replacements the first time and one the next. Now that a Sylvania has burned up, I've gone back to incandescents. I like the energy savings and lack of heat with CFLs, but the smoky failures are too much.
and 2 have caught on fire in service
When you guys say "burned out," is this what you mean?
I have had a few CFLs just quit working, but I also had three go out with smoke and a terrible, chemical stench that lingers in the room for a day or so and in the fixture for a lot longer. It sort of smells like burning chlorine. Two were Feit bulbs about 3-4 years old, and one was a much younger Sylvania. My wife was in the (small, windowless) bathroom when two of them let go, so she's no fan of CFLs. The fumes smell seriously toxic, and the plastic base is charred around the tube openings.
I liked the Sylvanias because they were 3000K color temperature. I still had receipts for a couple that just quit, and sent them back to Sylvania. They sent back two replacements the first time and one the next. Now that a Sylvania has burned up, I've gone back to incandescents. I like the energy savings and lack of heat with CFLs, but the smoky failures are too much.
Like I said before: there are many inferior constructed CFLs out there and some of them would give out a stench when the electronic ballact fail due to heat/insulation related failures.
Mostly due to improperly spec'ed(non-complying components) film caps such as mylar film caps in places where AC Metallised polypro film caps should be in place, or poor quality lytic capacitors bursting their vents spewing electrolytic steam out in the air (this is a safety feature, by design. On the other hand: high quality capacitors would not fail by venting or other issues). Others such as failed heat-shrink tubing materials used in insulating already packed components due to cheep olefin materials used for those materials, etc.
Mostly due to improperly spec'ed(non-complying components) film caps such as mylar film caps in places where AC Metallised polypro film caps should be in place, or poor quality lytic capacitors bursting their vents spewing electrolytic steam out in the air (this is a safety feature, by design. On the other hand: high quality capacitors would not fail by venting or other issues). Others such as failed heat-shrink tubing materials used in insulating already packed components due to cheep olefin materials used for those materials, etc.
Originally Posted By: Quest
During Xmas month: my electricity bill was only 8.8 bucks! (tax included).
Cripes, my DAILY costs from September through december were $3.32 - for 13.2KWhr per day.
$345 for the quarter.
Poor old power station that bought the coal and generated the energy got about $50 of it.
During Xmas month: my electricity bill was only 8.8 bucks! (tax included).
Cripes, my DAILY costs from September through december were $3.32 - for 13.2KWhr per day.
$345 for the quarter.
Poor old power station that bought the coal and generated the energy got about $50 of it.
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Who knows what will illuminate our homes 50 or 100 yrs from now?
Probably something like this. Just spent best part of an hour talking to the inventor.
http://foreverlight.com.au/index.php
Apparently he's selling to the states for fallout shelters.
Install them, and while ever there's more than -80F temperature in the room, there's light.
Who knows what will illuminate our homes 50 or 100 yrs from now?
Probably something like this. Just spent best part of an hour talking to the inventor.
http://foreverlight.com.au/index.php
Apparently he's selling to the states for fallout shelters.
Install them, and while ever there's more than -80F temperature in the room, there's light.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Quest
Besides, we save by not committed to more associated pollution emissions (mercury, sulphur, etc.) from coal-firing power plants then we have to when compared to the incandescent bulb.
The jury is still out on the mercury issue. Many people claim we save more mercury than is in CFLs by burning less coal for energy. I listened to a talk by a Univ of Michigan professor who's research is centered on materials used in lighting. If anyone would know, he would know about these issues. He said that nobody really knows all the facts about the mercury issue. It's something that is still debated and researched.
Besides, we save by not committed to more associated pollution emissions (mercury, sulphur, etc.) from coal-firing power plants then we have to when compared to the incandescent bulb.
The jury is still out on the mercury issue. Many people claim we save more mercury than is in CFLs by burning less coal for energy. I listened to a talk by a Univ of Michigan professor who's research is centered on materials used in lighting. If anyone would know, he would know about these issues. He said that nobody really knows all the facts about the mercury issue. It's something that is still debated and researched.
I don't have any problems with CFLs. Been using them for years and my electric bill is one of the cheapest in my neighborhood, according to many neighbors I've spoken to.
I'm not much for environmentalism or "save the Earth" mentality, but more so for inexpensive living. Anything to facilitate that is worth checking into.
I'm not much for environmentalism or "save the Earth" mentality, but more so for inexpensive living. Anything to facilitate that is worth checking into.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The jury is still out on the mercury issue. Many people claim we save more mercury than is in CFLs by burning less coal for energy. I listened to a talk by a Univ of Michigan professor who's research is centered on materials used in lighting. If anyone would know, he would know about these issues. He said that nobody really knows all the facts about the mercury issue. It's something that is still debated and researched.
I'm fully aware of that side of the argument. That being said, however, there are a few facts that would be difficult to ignore:
(1)EPA's figure on mercury emissions to be 103 metric tons from the states each year, and 1/2 of that (approx. 52 metric tons) came from coal firing power plants. EPA estimates approx. 11 metric tons came from landfilled CFLs.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
(2) assuming the service life of CFLs to be set to 8000hrs, citing 13Watt equivalent to 60Watt standard incandescent lightbulb as far as light output's concerned, the differences are obvious:
-power consumption (over 8khrs): CFL: 104kWhr vs incandescent of 480kWhr.
-mercury from electricity use: CFL: 1.2mg; incandescent 5.5mg.
-mercury from landfilling: CFL: 0.44mg; incandescent 0mg.
Grand Total of mercury contributed by use of lighting method: CFL: 1.6mg, vs Incandescent of 5.5mg.
Also, not to mention that as public awareness about mercury goes up, recycling programs for CFLs gone up as well: currently, our local regional CFL recycling depot reporting over 30% success rate of consumers voluntarily dropping off spent CFLs at those depots (even Ikea,local pharmacies, etc. have booths for collecting CFLs) instead of ended up in landfills. With that in mind, mercury in landfill would be reduced (regionally speaking) in our case.
Yes, I know not many folks like the idea of CFLs, citing all kinds of issues/dislikes. But so long as they are aware that this may be just an interim solution to better, more efficient lighting (e.g. LED, etc.) then it would be a wise move.
The jury is still out on the mercury issue. Many people claim we save more mercury than is in CFLs by burning less coal for energy. I listened to a talk by a Univ of Michigan professor who's research is centered on materials used in lighting. If anyone would know, he would know about these issues. He said that nobody really knows all the facts about the mercury issue. It's something that is still debated and researched.
I'm fully aware of that side of the argument. That being said, however, there are a few facts that would be difficult to ignore:
(1)EPA's figure on mercury emissions to be 103 metric tons from the states each year, and 1/2 of that (approx. 52 metric tons) came from coal firing power plants. EPA estimates approx. 11 metric tons came from landfilled CFLs.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
(2) assuming the service life of CFLs to be set to 8000hrs, citing 13Watt equivalent to 60Watt standard incandescent lightbulb as far as light output's concerned, the differences are obvious:
-power consumption (over 8khrs): CFL: 104kWhr vs incandescent of 480kWhr.
-mercury from electricity use: CFL: 1.2mg; incandescent 5.5mg.
-mercury from landfilling: CFL: 0.44mg; incandescent 0mg.
Grand Total of mercury contributed by use of lighting method: CFL: 1.6mg, vs Incandescent of 5.5mg.
Also, not to mention that as public awareness about mercury goes up, recycling programs for CFLs gone up as well: currently, our local regional CFL recycling depot reporting over 30% success rate of consumers voluntarily dropping off spent CFLs at those depots (even Ikea,local pharmacies, etc. have booths for collecting CFLs) instead of ended up in landfills. With that in mind, mercury in landfill would be reduced (regionally speaking) in our case.
Yes, I know not many folks like the idea of CFLs, citing all kinds of issues/dislikes. But so long as they are aware that this may be just an interim solution to better, more efficient lighting (e.g. LED, etc.) then it would be a wise move.
I can envision my great grandchildren going to a museum on a school trip and seeing our extinct spirally CFL on display.
Listen closely.... you can actually hear the laughter.
Listen closely.... you can actually hear the laughter.
Incandescent longevity is also poor too, along with some of the CFL's. I've had a few burn out prematurely, and some of the early USA-made Sylvania's are still going strong after many years (maybe 8?).
Good info about the LED's - I won't bother stocking up anymore CFL's.
Good info about the LED's - I won't bother stocking up anymore CFL's.
@NJC:
It would take many more years for LED technology to both mature and also come down in pricing...so CFL is going to be around for the next (my humble guess) decade or 2 until LED pricing becomes competitive to that of CFL.
When that happens, embrace LED for that would be the future (until some newer/better lighting technologies come along) for it will power from streetlights to regular household lighting to even automobile headlamps and what-not.
I can see that coming too, just dunno when *grin*
Q.
It would take many more years for LED technology to both mature and also come down in pricing...so CFL is going to be around for the next (my humble guess) decade or 2 until LED pricing becomes competitive to that of CFL.
When that happens, embrace LED for that would be the future (until some newer/better lighting technologies come along) for it will power from streetlights to regular household lighting to even automobile headlamps and what-not.
I can see that coming too, just dunno when *grin*
Q.
One of the reasons incandescent bulbs don't last is that they are made for 120 Volts. Line voltage in many cities is 125+Volts.
130 Volt bulbs, if you can find them, are expensive (low production/sales).
Plus, the quality control of foreign factories is pretty low.
130 Volt bulbs, if you can find them, are expensive (low production/sales).
Plus, the quality control of foreign factories is pretty low.
I've been using CFL's for 7 years and have gone through many many bulbs. They only last 1200-1300 hrs on average when cycled 2-3 times per day. Their claims of 7 years is totally bogus.
The fluorescent tubes, however, tend to last much longer.
The fluorescent tubes, however, tend to last much longer.
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