Consumer Reports Ranking on 10 year maintenance costs...
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
- Start date
Yes I talk to people who have a car I'm interested in or curious about at the gas pump or where-ever. It is some information at least.
I do wonder about the reliability variance in years or the same car. Could be just supplier problems or updated parts?
Also the most reliable "brand" isn't a great piece of information as you are buying a specific model. All brands have some mix of cars they got right and ones they didn't, and you don't want to end up paying for "Toyota reliability" on the couple models that did have some bad years, or its more fun to pay less for a specific good model from an "unreliable" brand.
"How much does an EV battery cost to replace? EV battery replacements range from $6,500 to $20,000 based on the pack, size and manufacturer. If a battery is within its manufacturer warranty, typically 8 years and 100,000 miles, then you should get a replacement battery at no extra cost."
I think you would easily see about $10,000 for a Tesla battery replacement, or more. Warranty is 8 years, so likely they last just past the 10 year point so they are probably not included in the survey. But they should be. If not totally dead, I bet their range reduces significantly.
Highest degradation is in the first year; it slows after that.
Tesla battery warranty.
The warranty guarantees that the battery will retain at least 70% of its original capacity during the warranty period, also known as 30% degradation. If the battery retention drops below 70%, Tesla will replace it.
Tesla batteries do not up and die right after warranty expiration. Do you have any data to support your opinion?
According to J.D. Power, Tesla batteries typically degrade by about 1% of range per year, meaning they retain 90% of their capacity after 10 years. A NimbleFins study found that the average Tesla battery still provides over 90% of its original range up to 100,000 miles, and even over 80% of its original range at 200,000 miles or more.
I haven't done any 10 year statistic gathering but the most expensive car to maintain that I have owned was a 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe that I purchased new. I kept track of the expenditures and the out of pocket costs were about $1000 per year for the 5 years I owned it. Way too much and I doubt I would buy another Infiniti.
On the other hand, my 2019 Mazda CX 5 which will be 5 years old next month has cost practically nothing in maintenance. However that has to be qualified by two things, one is that I'm now retired and only drive it about 5000 miles a year which means the maintenance consists of a yearly DIY oil and filter change, one cabin air filter and one air filter. Plus a preemptive new battery since I don't trust them for more than 4 years, and a new set of tires as the original Toyos were poor performers in the snow.
Lots of variables to consider which CR rarely takes into effect. But if you own an Infiniti or Lexus and do any of your own work and haven't figured out how to cross reference parts with the Nissan and Toyota equivalents, your are bound to be hosed on the costs.
On the other hand, my 2019 Mazda CX 5 which will be 5 years old next month has cost practically nothing in maintenance. However that has to be qualified by two things, one is that I'm now retired and only drive it about 5000 miles a year which means the maintenance consists of a yearly DIY oil and filter change, one cabin air filter and one air filter. Plus a preemptive new battery since I don't trust them for more than 4 years, and a new set of tires as the original Toyos were poor performers in the snow.
Lots of variables to consider which CR rarely takes into effect. But if you own an Infiniti or Lexus and do any of your own work and haven't figured out how to cross reference parts with the Nissan and Toyota equivalents, your are bound to be hosed on the costs.
CR rankings are like asking BITOG members to Rank which oil is best. (The fan favorites will always rank at the top).
I think there are plenty of parts in my Lexus RX 350 that are more expensive to replace than those corresponding parts found in a Corolla base model. I do believe the labor rate is also higher at the Lexus the dealership. I will say my Lexus has been my most expensive car to maintain during the first 50,000 miles since it needed new brakes and tires at 30k miles - it currently has 50K miles and will probably need new brakes again in 10k miles. My Tundra has 50k miles on it and a decent amount of brake life left on it. Seems the Lexus is going to chew through brakes every 30-35k miles.
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You guys keep making claims but the truth is much different. I cant wait for the inevitable spin on this one.
I don't generate deep, detailed data, few here do, but I am hearing that Tesla did not have significant sales until 2018, but the very few first ones were sold in 2013 - 2014. So now those first few are reaching the 10 year mark and they are starting to need replacements. More will likely follow in the next few years. I am hearing the replacement battery cost is astronomical and that there is lots of hesitation to replace a battery in a 10+ year old small car. I think its a convenient happenstance for Tesla that battery replacement falls just outside the "10 year" mark.
I know I would not want to replace an engine and trans in a 10 year old ICE car for $10,000 if it were mine.
There you go. Someone who understands.
My 2017 Ford Fiesta has 70K miles and has only needed replacables. Tires, oil changes, wiper blades, and all of it has been cheap!
My 2019 RAM with 25K miles has been perfect. Still have original tires and wiper blades. Oil changes only!
My 2018 Chevy Silverado (which I work) needed tires, a few front end parts, and regular oil changes.
All three of my ICE vehicles have been a dream to own so far.
My 2019 RAM with 25K miles has been perfect. Still have original tires and wiper blades. Oil changes only!
My 2018 Chevy Silverado (which I work) needed tires, a few front end parts, and regular oil changes.
All three of my ICE vehicles have been a dream to own so far.
There is a lot of commentary on Bob about Consumer Reports ratings.
Consumer Reports ratings are based on an annual survey of the Consumer Reports membership. It's not a survey of the membership's mechanics - which would create a different bias. Mechanics mostly work on vehicles with problems. They don't work on vehicles without problems.
Consumer Reports keeps track of the vehicles each member owns and every year asks about miles/kilometers in the past year, mechanical problems in the past year, how much the member spent on repairs and maintenance in the past year, and the member's satisfaction with the vehicle (don't remember that question exactly).
It's not a perfect study. There are no perfect studies. Sources of bias: (it's not a random survey - members not all owners, based on memory not exact data, a smaller sample size for some models - though they do say when they have insufficient data to comment, DIY messes with the cost of repair question). But there is some good stuff too (not just mechanics, a big sample size for popular models, asks about "problems" which will likely catch warranty problems too, and asks about customer satisfaction).
My experience (after 40 years of regular study of the annual reports): Overall I find them pretty accurate. GM and Ford large vehicles, and Toyotas and Hondas have generally been shown to be quite reliable (correct). Chrysler products a bit less so (correct). Volvos and BMWs have more problems (correct). VWs have lots of problems (correct). And Tesla and Corvette owners really like their cars (correct).
So I'd suggest you not dismiss Consumer Reports auto ratings. Just understand where they come from.
Consumer Reports ratings are based on an annual survey of the Consumer Reports membership. It's not a survey of the membership's mechanics - which would create a different bias. Mechanics mostly work on vehicles with problems. They don't work on vehicles without problems.
Consumer Reports keeps track of the vehicles each member owns and every year asks about miles/kilometers in the past year, mechanical problems in the past year, how much the member spent on repairs and maintenance in the past year, and the member's satisfaction with the vehicle (don't remember that question exactly).
It's not a perfect study. There are no perfect studies. Sources of bias: (it's not a random survey - members not all owners, based on memory not exact data, a smaller sample size for some models - though they do say when they have insufficient data to comment, DIY messes with the cost of repair question). But there is some good stuff too (not just mechanics, a big sample size for popular models, asks about "problems" which will likely catch warranty problems too, and asks about customer satisfaction).
My experience (after 40 years of regular study of the annual reports): Overall I find them pretty accurate. GM and Ford large vehicles, and Toyotas and Hondas have generally been shown to be quite reliable (correct). Chrysler products a bit less so (correct). Volvos and BMWs have more problems (correct). VWs have lots of problems (correct). And Tesla and Corvette owners really like their cars (correct).
So I'd suggest you not dismiss Consumer Reports auto ratings. Just understand where they come from.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Thanks for sharing. Interesting list. 
That's an interesting point. Any examples? Where can we find a parts number cross reference?
A friend of mine worked for a psychiatrist as his driver (until he passed away a few years ago) and he drove a large V8 hybrid Lexus. That thing cost him thousands of dollars almost every year for maintenance and repairs. $15,000 Canadian one time when the hybrid battery failed. These engines are a lot more expensive for basic maintenance and repairs than a 4 cylinder corolla or Camry. This is IMO likely the reason for the difference in brands.
Change a taillight led or xenon gas or led headlight vs $5-$10 bulb and $50 labor is one tiny example.
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Yep, my experience has also largely borne out the CR ratings. Yes, the CR ratings are somewhat biased because they use a limited sample size (i.e., CR subscribers), but nonetheless they are still worthwhile statistics to peruse once that limitation is understood. And it's important to keep in mind that the CR reliability statistics are for frequency of repair, which shows how frequently a vehicle is taken out of service for a repair issue. All that said, my experience of frequency of repair largely lines up with what CR has shown. I've owned several Honda and Toyota vehicles over the years, and these really do have less frequency of repair than vehicles I've owned from other makes (GM, Chrysler, Ford and even Mazda and Nissan) as CR generally has shown to be the case. But as the OP topic shows, some vehicles may have somewhat higher frequency of repairs but at the same time have lower total maintenance/repair costs.
I have found a few other articles and statements from CR to be absolute garbage, but IMO their auto ratings are usually spot on.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
As are most in my opinion.
Would be interesting to see the break-out of parts vs. labor costs in a similar format. My experience with German cars has been that parts are a little more expensive, being more durable(?) and more complex, but the BIG difference is in cost of labor/no. of hours for repairs.
As an aside, the resulting higher insurance costs are also an aggravation. But yes, I do like how they drive and ride.
As an aside, the resulting higher insurance costs are also an aggravation. But yes, I do like how they drive and ride.
JHZR2
Staff member
Probably. My brother has a 1996 LandCruiser FJZ80, but it’s the Lexus version. He buys all the parts at a Toyota dealer online that offers a discount. The same exact part from any Lexus dealer is significantly more. I’m sure labor is commensurate.