and I would much rather drive an es350 over an Avalon. Avalon says old and retired, es350 says mature and successful, but reasonable enough to know better than to buy German.
Consumer Reports Ranking on 10 year maintenance costs...
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
- Start date
This is the way new science works. Find a study or data that supports a presupposed conclusion. Then declare that the science on the matter is settled. Then label those who doubt the premise and its falsified conclusion to be science deniers.
This an important feature of post-modernism.
This an important feature of post-modernism.
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So much clickbait these days. Those that write these articles must be scouring the web for stuff to write about. Two recent examples I've read personally lately.
Mercedes Benz is the highest in maintenance costs, or always ranks near the bottom. Yet, I've never had to spend a penny to maintain my last two MB's. Oil changes I do myself, so I don't count that. I'm talking about things breaking.
Today it was "The parts used in the GM ignition switch recall would sometimes fail" ! HOW! I was included in that recall on my 2008 DTS. They FILLED IN THE KEYHOLE with super glued in inserts! So instead of a slot, there was a hole in the middle for the keyring to attach.
How does that fail?
Mercedes Benz is the highest in maintenance costs, or always ranks near the bottom. Yet, I've never had to spend a penny to maintain my last two MB's. Oil changes I do myself, so I don't count that. I'm talking about things breaking.
Today it was "The parts used in the GM ignition switch recall would sometimes fail" ! HOW! I was included in that recall on my 2008 DTS. They FILLED IN THE KEYHOLE with super glued in inserts! So instead of a slot, there was a hole in the middle for the keyring to attach.
How does that fail?
Yes, this is a survey from a captured group with pretty much zero supporting information.
A CR survey may be interesting and shed some light, but hardly valid statistically..
A CR survey may be interesting and shed some light, but hardly valid statistically..
The problem with consumer reporting is that perception becomes reality. If someone believes a brand costs less in maintenance, that's what they will report.
A good example in the past was the Pontiac Vibe and the Toyota Matrix. The Matrix scored a bit higher on customer satisfaction, despite the fact that the Pontiac Vibe was built by the same people in the same plant using almost identical parts.
That's not to say that there isn't some value, but I think you have to take it with a grain of salt.
A good example in the past was the Pontiac Vibe and the Toyota Matrix. The Matrix scored a bit higher on customer satisfaction, despite the fact that the Pontiac Vibe was built by the same people in the same plant using almost identical parts.
That's not to say that there isn't some value, but I think you have to take it with a grain of salt.
Land Rover you gotta BIG big budget for the REPAIR costs AND the maintenance costs!!
Maybe the trick to winning this, is to have the vehicle break within the warranty period.... 
I know my subaru dealer sure is interested in maintaining my car to a very high level, and is willing to charge a few $$ for it, and many of their new car buyers will just get almost whatever the dealer recommends, done there.
For me, I envision the average consumer reports subscriber and judge their data from that perspective.
I know my subaru dealer sure is interested in maintaining my car to a very high level, and is willing to charge a few $$ for it, and many of their new car buyers will just get almost whatever the dealer recommends, done there.
For me, I envision the average consumer reports subscriber and judge their data from that perspective.
A while back carmakers gamed this system by declaring the 100k mile service an oil change while "the big one" at 105k including the timing belt, transmission flush, etc.
Luxury customers like paying money and having the car in for service. Well, maybe the high strung euro models at least. It's a power move for a middle manager to skip out early or make the secretary give him a ride to "pick up his car at the shop."
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Yeah, there is something to that. I am guessing the average Consumer Reports customer isn't Mike Friend and has the cam, tune and exhaust swapped out during the warranty period.Maybe the trick to winning this, is to have the vehicle break within the warranty period....
I know my subaru dealer sure is interested in maintaining my car to a very high level, and is willing to charge a few $$ for it, and many of their new car buyers will just get almost whatever the dealer recommends, done there.
For me, I envision the average consumer reports subscriber and judge their data from that perspective.
Exactly. Rip off a wiper blade in an ice storm? If you bought a CR recommended car, it was a freak of nature and you won't badmouth the brand over it. Buy something they hate? You bet it "wasn't engineered for the elements."
For me, $0.45-$0.57* CAD per Kilometre. Based on the Nissans' , Ford, VW Passat we have or had. *The 2004 Passat Wagon was the most expensive one at $0.57 CAD per Km - as recently as 2018 data.
I would take a es350 to Toyota for oil changes. Cheaper and the exact same filter. The 3.5 6 cylinder in a 2007 es350 was the exact same motor as the 6 cylinder in the Avalon/Camry but Lexus specified premium fuel while Toyota didn't. Luxury buyers expect that.
We use the online option of my FIL's subscription and I just filled out the car survey, and it has no questions regarding who does the maintenance... So my Outback's maintenance cost in 2023 was $350 for two DIY oil changes and a pair of front brake rotors and pads.
The Focus was maintenance was 2 DIY oil changes and a repair cost of $350 for a new front subframe.
So its a not a great source of data but I suppose a DIY'r is a bit of an outlier. If they have a big enough sample size though I suppose this all should average out for the most part.
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CU offers the only data points we have. So much better than a neighbor or our guesses. Ed
Good post. I would guess that CR subscribers do a lot of basic maintenance, as they are probably cost conscious.
But yeah, without detail, numbers are meaningless. The CR biggie joke to me is "quality". It is a catchall, rendering it void.
burbguy82
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This is a circumstance where stats tell facts, but not the truth. Extend that to 15 of 20 years, and Tesla would be way on the bottom. Gas tank on my 99 Suburban was $300 bucks. Gas tank on a Tesla=not 300 bucks.
Sure 10 years, ill give it to Tesla.
Respectfully disagree. At least you can talk to your neighbor. Even our guesses can be educated guesses based on experience.
Here's another questionable issue I have with CR: one year a make and model scores high and the next it is a dog.
What happened? Without detail, who the heck knows?
IMO the most valuable CR metric is customer satisfaction. It is the #1 indicator of a repeat purchase. People tend to stay away from a brand who did them no justice.
Just my 2 cents.