Consumer Guide Automotive : Cost of charging electric vehicles ...

I just paid $4.50 per gallon to top off my piggy Tundra with rag at Costco (13 miles each way). So driving there cost about $6 to $7.
I have solar panels so I charge my Tesla for free. And don't have to drive anywhere to fill up, which is a nice plus.

Tundra takes 7 qts of M1 and a filter every year. Recently replaced 3 outta 4 O2 sensors. Timing belt service pretty soon... Ouch!

So it all depends on your use case. And, of course, what you want. I want both of them.
 
JeffKeryk said:
I just paid $4.50 per gallon to top off my piggy Tundra with rag at Costco (13 miles each way). So driving there cost about $6 to $7.
I have solar panels so I charge my Tesla for free. And don't have to drive anywhere to fill up, which is a nice plus.

Tundra takes 7 qts of M1 and a filter every year. Recently replaced 3 outta 4 O2 sensors. Timing belt service pretty soon... Ouch!

So it all depends on your use case. And, of course, what you want. I want both of them.
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I don't think the O2 sensor problems are typical for gas car, I mean I personally replace them once in a while when they are on sale from Rock Auto with those cheap brands as long as they are the same Denso / NTK the car came with for $30, but they ain't replaced due to going bad for me ever in any of my car.

Comparing Tundra with Tesla isn't fair, I'd use a Prius or Camry instead if you really want to compare apple to apple.
 
Cujet said:
Unfortunately, insurance for a Tesla here in Jupiter, FL is higher than for a conventional vehicle.
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The only cheap way to get Tesla insurance is with Tesla IMO. They seems to subsidize it to make it cost less, and they seem to sell parts to the repair shop using their own internal pricing to make it "cheap".

I wish more automaker use this model to make car insurance more affordable.

Off topic:
The most expensive part of owning an EV is not the charging, it is the battery depreciation cost over "time". A $13-20k battery pack depreciation over 15 years is still $867-1333 a year before interest and opportunity cost. If you don't drive enough you waste it, and yet if you drive too much you can't without wasting a lot of time charging it. There is a sweet spot but you have to know ahead of time your use case is in it and you won't change your use case for another 15 years to know it will work out for you. A lot of uncertainty for the math to work out IMO.

Tesla would likely be the cheap one in 15 years due to economy of scale compare to low volume cars like Volt or other "also run" brand EV with low volume from major manufacturers.
 
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PandaBear said:
The only cheap way to get Tesla insurance is with Tesla IMO. They seems to subsidize it to make it cost less, and they seem to sell parts to the repair shop using their own internal pricing to make it "cheap".

I wish more automaker use this model to make car insurance more affordable.
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I have Costco Connect and my insurance is under $1200 for 6 months.
Tundra - no full coverage
M3, 2 Lexi and TSX full coverage
 
PandaBear said:
I don't think the O2 sensor problems are typical for gas car, I mean I personally replace them once in a while when they are on sale from Rock Auto with those cheap brands as long as they are the same Denso / NTK the car came with for $30, but they ain't replaced due to going bad for me ever in any of my car.

Comparing Tundra with Tesla isn't fair, I'd use a Prius or Camry instead if you really want to compare apple to apple.
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Fair enough. But comparing our Model 3 fueling costs against any ICE car is not fair because I charge with solar panels. And don't hafta go anywhere.

I would taken the Tesla to Costco, but I generally take one of the ICE cars to fill up. Costco is about 40 cents less around here, as you know.

My point is, it depends on your use case.
 
JeffKeryk said:
I just paid $4.50 per gallon to top off my piggy Tundra with rag at Costco (13 miles each way). So driving there cost about $6 to $7.
I have solar panels so I charge my Tesla for free. And don't have to drive anywhere to fill up, which is a nice plus.
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Charge for free. Nice. How much was your Tesla to buy again? Say about the same as a comparable sized/class car with about 5000 gallons of gas (about 150,000 miles worth) "free"?

Not sure about the "don't have to drive anywhere to fill up" statement. I mean, yeah if you just drive within the range limits back and forth to your house you won't have to go hunting for one of the rare and elusive charging stations to go farther. But then, I drive past 8 gas stations on my drive to work and I live in rural county so not like it's a big deal to fill up. Only takes about 2 minutes too. And I can drive wherever I want. Amazing. ;)

JeffKeryk said:
So it all depends on your use case. And, of course, what you want. I want both of them.
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Exactly. And most people's use case does not call for an EV. So they buy a normal car as well to use when the many faults of the EV make it impractical. So now they are buying 2 vehicles to do the job of one, using more resources, more energy, and higher cost. The cost of a Tesla isn't $40k......it's $40k plus the cost of whatever else you have to buy to still live your life away from the plug.

SaberOne said:
I saw a receipt for battery replacement on a Chevy Volt and it was $28,xxx.xx.
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Yup, and they will claim that doesn't count, it was an "old tech" battery, they don't make them anymore, new batteries are better......go buy a new EV.

$29k Volt Battery Replacement

It was a 2012..........11 years old.........old tech, go buy a new one.........aren't they always claiming new battery tech? New advancements, batteries have a lot of innovation left in them? So what will they say when the 2023 needs a new battery in 10 years? Or even 15 if we give them credit for their claimed improvements.

I have a 1983 Porsche 944 in my stable, 40 years old. Had an engine transplant right around it's 24th b-day with 137k on the clock due to PO idiotically running it without coolant. Engine replacement was no where near $29k, barely over 10% of that with a donor engine with 37k on it. My 2012 Golf R is 11 years old, original engine still running with plenty of life left in and again, if I money shift on track replacing the engine AND building it for 500+ HP while it's out will not be $29k.
 
PandaBear said:
The correct way to compare is to split up each car's cost for the same owner on the same policy.
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Yes, but I also get a break for the multiple cars. The GS350 F Sport is the highest.
2006 TSX $248
2001 Tundra $91
2013 GS350 $398
2018 Model 3 $255
2021 RX450h $191

Totol 6 month premuim $1,183
Looking at the numbers, the price is determined by annual driving mileage.
 
Thumper3 said:
Charge for free. Nice. How much was your Tesla to buy again? Say about the same as a comparable sized/class car with about 5000 gallons of gas (about 150,000 miles worth) "free"?

Not sure about the "don't have to drive anywhere to fill up" statement. I mean, yeah if you just drive within the range limits back and forth to your house you won't have to go hunting for one of the rare and elusive charging stations to go farther. But then, I drive past 8 gas stations on my drive to work and I live in rural county so not like it's a big deal to fill up. Only takes about 2 minutes too. And I can drive wherever I want. Amazing. ;)



Exactly. And most people's use case does not call for an EV. So they buy a normal car as well to use when the many faults of the EV make it impractical. So now they are buying 2 vehicles to do the job of one, using more resources, more energy, and higher cost. The cost of a Tesla isn't $40k......it's $40k plus the cost of whatever else you have to buy to still live your life away from the plug.
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Yes, our Model 3 was expensive; they are much cheaper now. The Model 3 starts at $43K now, before any incentives that one might qualify for. I am not sure how far that is off the price of a loaded Camry nowadays. How much is a BMW 3 series nowadays?

It is difficult to understand how great it is to charge at home and start each day with a full tank if you have not experienced it. I charge for free because I installed solar in March 2018; since then my electricity bill is maybe $9 per month, or less. Adding the EV into the mix (in Dec 2018) only gets me to break even faster, then it's all gravy, right? I'm sure you know about energy costs in Silicon Valley.

You say most people's use case does not call for an EV. I'm not so sure... How many miles do people drive per day?
There have been a number of studies on the subject over the years, but results have varied. Some have indicated the average American drives less than 30 miles (48 km) per day, while other studies have put that number closer to 40 miles (64 km).
This is an excellent reason for an EV, if their charging capability permits.

Are you sure you fill up in 2 minutes? I find that a little hard to believe. I can't do that in my ICE venicles. Regardless, I pull the Model 3 into the garage and plug in. That's fast.
 
PimTac said:
It all depends on what the meaning of “free” is.
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I have eplained that many times. Doing the math determined the meaning for me.
I ran the numbers and decided to install solar; those numbers did not include charging an EV. EV gets me closer to break even; I may be there now but it is difficult to compare with all the energy prices and my energy use. It is not something I need to be concerned with anymore because electricity is so cheap for me. Pretty nice...
 
JeffKeryk said:
You say most people's use case does not call for an EV. I'm not so sure... How many miles do people drive per day?
There have been a number of studies on the subject over the years, but results have varied. Some have indicated the average American drives less than 30 miles (48 km) per day, while other studies have put that number closer to 40 miles (64 km).
This is an excellent reason for an EV, if their charging capability permits.
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Again, it's not how many miles I drive in a day. Yes, I can use an EV to make my morning commute. But I can NOT use an EV to tow my trailer, or take a full weekend track event, or drive cross country to visit family without taking a week or more to get there. So yes, I can use an EV for my daily drive.......but I can use my ICE cars for EVERYTHING. If I wanted to I could live my entire life with JUST the Touareg. One vehicle. As I stated before, unless you live your life at home and the office and driving in between, people need an ICE in addition to their EV to do what a single ICE can do. How is that BETTER?


JeffKeryk said:
It is difficult to understand how great it is to charge at home and start each day with a full tank if you have not experienced it.
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Um, you realize that I don't need to start my day with a full tank because I don't have charging anxiety. I start my WEEK with a full tank and never have to think about it.


JeffKeryk said:
Are you sure you fill up in 2 minutes? I find that a little hard to believe. I can't do that in my ICE venicles.
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Ok, you got me, takes about 3 minutes for the Touareg and it's 26 gallon tank.


Of course I can drive 700 miles on that tank.................and then fill up in 3 minutes and go another 700 miles............


JeffKeryk said:
Regardless, I pull the Model 3 into the garage and plug in. That's fast.
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No it isn't! How long does it take to hit that "full tank" after you plug it in?? That's how long it takes, it is irrelevant if you plan your life around the time needed to not inconvenience yourself, which in itself is an inconvenience. What happens if you get home and plug in and 10 minutes later decide to go out to eat? Can you go to any restaurant you want.....or do you have to find someplace within whatever limited range you have left factoring round trip? What if after dinner a friend calls and says he's stranded 100 miles away and needs help? You either take an ICE vehicle you have on standby or tell them to pound sand.

That's the only way anyone can ever justify the EVs is if they twist reality and wave away real life factors as if they do not factor into the consideration because of THEIR point of view and circumstances.
 
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