Considering a generator

[spasm3]

That is Ok. I don't need to drag out the generator the minute the lights go out. I just looking to be able to survive, not preserving our creature comfort.

I run a harbor freight 4375 small generator that's 230v. Not dual fuel.
But it provides creature comforts. I run the gas furnace and the well pump, just not at the same time. I cut off both for a bit to use the cook top. House lights are led, and we watch TV.

Problem I see with dual fuel is consumption. If you are out for any amount of time , lp tanks won't run that long, couple of hours each? My gen runs 20 hrs on 5 gallons of gas.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

A Generac automatic unit will be your best bet. Most outages are short duration and at inconvenient times. By the time you drag out a portable generator and get it hooked up and running, the outage will be over.

This is changing, and my hunch is it'll get worse. Here in town I had two outages of nearly 24 hours in two months' time this summer, both caused by two-bit thunderstorms. My portable generator saved the food in my refrigerator and deep freezer both times. The deep freezer might have been all right after just a day, but you never know. Just as you never know how long that outage will really last once it begins. The days of the 45–minute power loss and then the lights are back on? They're over.

Response times for power restoration after major events such as an ice storm or hurricane are getting ever longer too. What used to be two or three days without power, even in rural areas, is turning into weeks recently.

One reason is the power companies are "saving money" by laying off linemen and are relying on contractors instead. Also, trees by/under lines are not being trimmed and removed as they had been 20 years ago, so preventive maintenance has taken a hit. Then comes a storm, and there go the trees knocking down poles and lines.

The big provider and the small co-ops out my way are equally guilty. The co-ops used to be more on the ball. Not any more.

I've forgotten the specs on my portable, but it runs on gasoline with easy pull start and I believe it's about 3500 watts. My intent was solely to keep the cold stuff cold, not to run the house. It came from Tractor Supply several years ago.

 

[dlundblad]

Our main reason for wanting one is to run the sump pump and keep the house from flooding if the power went out at the wrong time. I think the dual fuel would be the best option. Too expensive to get a natural gas one but I like the idea of propane as it doesn't go bad.

That’s less than 1000 watts. Perhaps around 2000 to start.

 

[dlundblad]

This is changing, and my hunch is it'll get worse. Here in town I had two outages of nearly 24 hours in two months' time this summer, both caused by two-bit thunderstorms. My portable generator saved the food in my refrigerator and deep freezer both times. The deep freezer might have been all right after just a day, but you never know. Just as you never know how long that outage will really last once it begins. The days of the 45–minute power loss and then the lights are back on? They're over.

Response times for power restoration after major events such as an ice storm or hurricane are getting ever longer too. What used to be two or three days without power, even in rural areas, is turning into weeks recently.

One reason is the power companies are "saving money" by laying off linemen and are relying on contractors instead. Also, trees by/under lines are not being trimmed and removed as they had been 20 years ago, so preventive maintenance has taken a hit. Then comes a storm, and there go the trees knocking down poles and lines.

The big provider and the small co-ops out my way are equally guilty. The co-ops used to be more on the ball. Not any more.

I've forgotten the specs on my portable, but it runs on gasoline with easy pull start and I believe it's about 3500 watts. My intent was solely to keep the cold stuff cold, not to run the house. It came from Tractor Supply several years ago.

Power companies here are hiring with no experience for their apprenticeship programs. Zero lay offs.

 

[Donald]

Your first task is to calculate your load. Your well pump is likely to be your largest load especially starting current. You either need to look at the nameplates for each device or get a clamp-on ammeters with peak hold.

Once you figure out the load you will need to figure out how to get the power to the devices. Extension cords or transfer switch. Do no even think about back-feeding.

Lastly determine how long you will need power for and what fuel. Also is this for outages you can plan for like a hurricane or a grid failure which is unplanned (except in Calif). Keeping more than 10 gallons of gas fresh is a PIA. Gas should not be stored in house, basement or attached garage unless in safety container.

 

[NH73]

This is changing, and my hunch is it'll get worse. Here in town I had two outages of nearly 24 hours in two months' time this summer, both caused by two-bit thunderstorms. My portable generator saved the food in my refrigerator and deep freezer both times. The deep freezer might have been all right after just a day, but you never know. Just as you never know how long that outage will really last once it begins. The days of the 45–minute power loss and then the lights are back on? They're over.

Response times for power restoration after major events such as an ice storm or hurricane are getting ever longer too. What used to be two or three days without power, even in rural areas, is turning into weeks recently.

One reason is the power companies are "saving money" by laying off linemen and are relying on contractors instead. Also, trees by/under lines are not being trimmed and removed as they had been 20 years ago, so preventive maintenance has taken a hit. Then comes a storm, and there go the trees knocking down poles and lines.

The big provider and the small co-ops out my way are equally guilty. The co-ops used to be more on the ball. Not any more.

I've forgotten the specs on my portable, but it runs on gasoline with easy pull start and I believe it's about 3500 watts. My intent was solely to keep the cold stuff cold, not to run the house. It came from Tractor Supply several years ago.

PPL is are electric distributor, and things seem actually the opposite for them. For about 15 years, they been after all their infrastructure. Cutting and trimming trees, updating transmission lines, replacing bad poles, replacing wooden transmission poles with steel ones, smart meters and switches. They use to had to go out and find the problem and operate the switches manually, now they can remotely operate switches.

 

[NH73]

are you sure its 230v many can be wired as either.. check your breaker if not sure.

Would having (2) 20 amp breakers mean it is 230 volt?

 

[dlundblad]

Would having (2) 20 amp breakers mean it is 230 volt?

240v would be 1 big breaker. They are called 2 poles. Should be like your AC’s breaker if you have central air. If your major appliances are electric, they’d be 240v 2 pole as well.

On a side note, a 20 amp 240v breaker on a .75 hp well pump seems over done. Do you know how deep your well is? Could be a shallow well and just be a 20 amp single pole.

Can you post a picture?

 

[tnt_motorsports]

I run a harbor freight 4375 small generator that's 230v. Not dual fuel.
But it provides creature comforts. I run the gas furnace and the well pump, just not at the same time. I cut off both for a bit to use the cook top. House lights are led, and we watch TV.

Problem I see with dual fuel is consumption. If you are out for any amount of time , lp tanks won't run that long, couple of hours each? My gen runs 20 hrs on 5 gallons of gas.

I agree with your assessment on fuel type. Unless you have a free flowing NG source or a huge LP tank it will be a PITA to run. Like you, I get pretty darn good run time out of my Wen.

Another side note is that some generators produce less power on LP than gasoline.

Just my $0.02

 

[ekrampitzjr]

PPL is are electric distributor, and things seem actually the opposite for them. For about 15 years, they been after all their infrastructure. Cutting and trimming trees, updating transmission lines, replacing bad poles, replacing wooden transmission poles with steel ones, smart meters and switches. They use to had to go out and find the problem and operate the switches manually, now they can remotely operate switches.

Glad to hear some power companies are still doing the job. Here in Virginia out-of-state contractors are doing the routine maintenance clearing brush around lines, and they aren't appearing until trees under the lines are nearly touching them.

Some years ago there were reports that Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) in California had laid off some of its own linemen "to improve customer service"—I'm not making that up. More like doing layoffs to increase profits for shareholders. That was long before the recent bankruptcy filing. And that was caused by...lack of maintenance to clear around lines.

 

[Rand]

for anyone interested this is the inverter generator at sams club that is going $319 from 11-6 to 11-8

Let us know you're not a robot - Sam's Club

www.samsclub.com

 

[Cujet]

As a very general rule, 5500W will start a submerged well pump OR a 2HP above ground well/pool pump. OR run a 4500W water heater (Obv not both) And of course any number of smaller loads.

Also, it requires about 390cc engine displacement to make enough HP at 3600RPM to produce 5500W.

So the bottom line is that a 390cc, 5500W 240V portable generator is "generally" a good choice to cover most emergencies.

 

[z71bill]

Your first task is to calculate your load. Your well pump is likely to be your largest load especially starting current. You either need to look at the nameplates for each device or get a clamp-on ammeters with peak hold.

Once you figure out the load you will need to figure out how to get the power to the devices. Extension cords or transfer switch. Do no even think about back-feeding.

Lastly determine how long you will need power for and what fuel. Also is this for outages you can plan for like a hurricane or a grid failure which is unplanned (except in Calif). Keeping more than 10 gallons of gas fresh is a PIA. Gas should not be stored in house, basement or attached garage unless in safety container.

You can safely back feed your breaker box if you install a simple interlock - you need a generator with the neutral floating - or if neutral and ground are bonded at the frame it can't have GFI protection on the outlet you use to feed power.

Amazon.com : Generator Interlock Kit Compatible with Square D QO or Homeline 150 or 200 amp panels. 1 3/8 inches Spacing between main and generator breaker, Professional and Interlock Kit : Tools & Home Improvement

Amazon.com : Generator Interlock Kit Compatible with Square D QO or Homeline 150 or 200 amp panels. 1 3/8 inches Spacing between main and generator breaker, Professional and Interlock Kit : Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

I installed one of these at my house and one at my daughter's house.

The interlock ~ $50
inlet plug $50
wire, conduit,
PVC primer & cement $50

Breaker $25

Less than $200 - the last one I did was only $140 because I had some stuff left over from when I installed mine.
You also need a power cord - I grabbed a 40 footer on sale for $72.

 

[z71bill]

The 240 volt well pump is something I don't have - I set my generator up to only power 120 volt breakers - no central AC or electric clothes dryer. So this doesn't apply to that situation.

MY OPINION -

Get one that is big enough to run the thing that takes the most juice + 1,000 - 1,500 watts extra

Say my microwave uses 1,200 watts, my HVAC blower (natural gas heat) needs 800 watts but 1500 starting watts, refrigerator 400 watts (I tested it) and 800 starting.

I got a Honda EG2800i rated at 2500 watts / 2800 starting.

I must balance things out - when the house starts getting cold I turn on the heat - but don't use the microwave - if I need the microwave I turn the heat off.

I have only LED lights so they don't amount to much - my TV and internet use less than 300 watts.

I was able to leave the heat and refrigerator both on all night when we were not using anything else -

IMHO smaller is better -

I ran mine for about 3 days straight - I was getting 6 hours out of a gallon of gas.

You buy a giant generator and you can run anything you want whenever you want - but it will burn a lot more gas.

My neighbor has a 9,500 watt unit - 8 gallon gas tank was lasting 12 hours so 1.5 hours per gallon.

He ran a lot the first day - but then was shutting everything down - no lights or TV or internet to save gas.

My point is - just a little electricity is so much better than none - I would rather have a smaller system that I can run most of the time even if I need to spend some effort managing the power (gave me something to do) VS having a big unit that sucks so much gas you can't run it as much as you like. This is not about cost of the gas - but when things are all shut down you can't buy gas - and the few places that are open will be crammed with people fighting for a fill up.


I have a friend that just bought a Firman tri fuel generator 9400/7500 - he has a natural gas hook up which is really nice - but a generator with 7500 watts using gasoline is rated 5500 watts on natural gas - plus it is not an inverter -

Mine is 62 decibels - his is 72 -- which means it is 2x as loud as mine.

I predict in the near future someone will be selling an inverter generator set up for natural gas - that would be the one to get - when one is available I will get one - until then I will stick with my Honda EG2800i

 

[Thermo1223]

I went with this only because I wasn't sure if I wanted to put the down the money for a stand alone whole house unit running on NG. I would only get a trifuel unit if I was going portable because if it really is a major power outage you still need electricity to pump propane into the tank and most propane places don't have backup power. However the gas stations all do and NG plants are also protected by backup power and first on the list to get it back if it really is that bad.

That all being said while you certainly need to power that well pump, I need to keep my sanity so the extra power is for A/C in the summer. Eventually I'll plunk down the cash for a 10-12kw outside unit fed off NG but for now this will do and I can always resell it.

Powermate PM9400E 7500 Running Watt Electric-Start Gasoline Powered Portable Generator, 50 ST/CSA P0081500 - The Home Depot

Ideal for use at outdoor events, the next DIY project or emergency backup power in the case of an outage, the PM9400E is up to the task. The PM9400E features a steel frame and a compact design with integrated

www.homedepot.com

 

[andyd]

Just had a 72hr outage that the Predator 6500watt handled with nary a wrinkle. I used the outlet for my 240 wired saw to back feed the panel with the main open. I on the list for an interlock kit. Not being able to run oven or dryer is the trade off for lower cost ,less thirsty unit that will only see occasional use.