Congress removes CARB and other state's ability to set emissions standards

[ripcord]

The Wall Street Journal just reported that the House and Senate have stripped California's waiver to set their own tailpipe emissions standards. This new law also invalidates state laws that mandate future EV only sales requirements. If I'm reading this correctly, this also means there will not be a separate California version of automobiles sold and only the Federal standard will be used nation wide.

Senate Votes to End California’s EV Mandate

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Good.

Wonder if that means non-emissions diesel fleets will be allowed back in California.

 

[SC Maintenance]

This could be a very interesting legal setup.

The Supreme Court has been neutering the EPA since the Chevron Doctrine. It has to do with the fact that Article 1 Section 1 says Congress passes the laws, and they don't get to delegate that job. The EPA is delegating lawmaking. So the Court is saying if Congress wants a law, they need to pass it themselves.

On the flip side, Congress has just stripped the states from setting their own standards higher than the EPA.

So I can see lots of questions to ask the court. For example - if the EPA is patently unconstitutional - then how can congress stip a state of its rights to make its own emission laws?

Very interesting.

 

[thastinger]

Good, California emissions have been costing me money and time in Virginia for far to long.

 

[Passport1]

Does that also mean the CARB will stop 'investigating' a $.65/gallon tax hike?

 

[Cujet]

I am in FL. I purchased a new 2024 F150 last year and noticed that it is CA compliant. Since I was curious I looked it up. Maybe 70% of new vehicles are CA, NY, CT, etc compliant. It seems it is simply easier for manufacturers to meet one standard instead of many. 18 states including CA have tougher than federal emission standards.

The EPA may not be unConstitutional, any more than the FAA is. But the EPA writing laws, enforcing those laws and judging the guilt of those who run afoul of those laws, certainly is.

Many people are unaware that the EPA uses the so called "interstate commerce clause" as the basis to regulate the manufacturers. The EPA, until quite recently, had absolutely no jurisdiction over the individual. Instead, that duty fell to the states. Then some minor changes were made that went unnoticed. And the EPA suddenly had control over individuals, clearly in violation of the Constitution and the basis used for regulating commerce. 3 branches of govt in one. Regulate (legislative, write the rules), Enforce (Executive branch, fines for example) and Judge your guilt (Judicial, incarcerate, including set terms of)

 

[ripcord]

This could be a very interesting legal setup.

The Supreme Court has been neutering the EPA since the Chevron Doctrine. It has to do with the fact that Article 1 Section 1 says Congress passes the laws, and they don't get to delegate that job. The EPA is delegating lawmaking. So the Court is saying if Congress wants a law, they need to pass it themselves.

On the flip side, Congress has just stripped the states from setting their own standards higher than the EPA.

So I can see lots of questions to ask the court. For example - if the EPA is patently unconstitutional - then how can congress stip a state of its rights to make its own emission laws?

Very interesting.

I think you're reading more into the Loper Bright case (which overturned Chevron) than what SCOTUS actually said. They didn't rule (or even imply) that the EPA was unconstitutional. It simply held that Federal courts should not automatically defer to federal agency opinions when the law is unclear. Instead, courts should exercise their own judgement in all cases involving interpretation of federal law and the regulations that implement them.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The Wall Street Journal just reported that the House and Senate have stripped California's waiver to set their own tailpipe emissions standards. This new law also invalidates state laws that mandate future EV only sales requirements. If I'm reading this correctly, this also means there will not be a separate California version of automobiles sold and only the Federal standard will be used nation wide.

Senate Votes to End California’s EV Mandate

The justification for using a simple majority vote will come back to haunt them. It's just another example of "The ends justify the means" governing. Short-sighted thinking yet again *sigh*.

 

[dbias]

Yeah. Smog is making a comeback.

 

[ripcord]

The justification for using a simple majority vote will come back to haunt them. It's just another example of "The ends justify the means" governing. Short-sighted thinking yet again *sigh*.

There is a huge debate in the Republican caucus about eliminating the filibuster. The Democrats voted to eliminate it and came up just one or two votes short the last time they held the Senate so it's clear they will kill it the next time they have the majority... which has the Republicans arguing over why they shouldn't just beat them to the punch. One way or another the filibuster is going away.

 

[ripcord]

Yeah. Smog is making a comeback.

No it's not. The federal standards are plenty stringent and are not going away.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

There is a huge debate in the Republican caucus about eliminating the filibuster. The Democrats voted to eliminate it and came up just one or two votes short the last time they held the Senate so it's clear they will kill it the next time they have the majority... which has the Republicans arguing over why they shouldn't just beat them to the punch. One way or another the filibuster is going away.

Ya. The GAO said they couldn't use a simple majority vote because the legislation isn't subject to the CRA (Congressional Review Act). Rules for thee but not for me!

 

[dbias]

No it's not. The federal standards are plenty stringent and are not going away.

Oh ok then states rights are a thing of the past? LA county has a greater population than forty of the United States. Maybe that density of population may need a little better than good enough for other areas. Like a top tier thing.

 

[Rmay635703]

Does that also mean the CARB will stop 'investigating' a $.65/gallon tax hike?

Probably the opposite.

Despite talks of increasing a “federal registration fee” to $1000 the Fed is wanting to eliminate all road funding to states. (Which will drive crazy costs to drive)

Good.

Wonder if that means non-emissions diesel fleets will be allowed back in California.

due to the extreme financial stress on fleets im guessing the chassis rebuild loophole will re-open. (Likely out of necessity because fleets cant afford new rigs under the new normal economy)

Through all of this I rather see crash open up, combine this development with a crash bypass and I could freely import foreign cars.

Oh ok then states rights are a thing of the past? LA county has a greater population than forty of the United States. Maybe that density of population may need a little better than good enough for other areas. Like a top tier thing.

Funny thing that, the federal education dept was eliminated throwing it back to state/local and no sooner do they do that but the Supreme Court accepted a case because of a small whiney group of Muslim individuals who want the right to opt their girl children out of certain coarsework without a flunk, despite the fact they could send their girls to different schools or homeschool.
If the federal court finds for the parents over that municipality in this case it will re-institute in effect a federal education enforcement board and federalized common rules nationwide, which are also non-enforceable because there is no agency or entity to enforce compliance.

AKA they want it both ways even if it contradicts what they did 5 minutes ago.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

The Wall Street Journal just reported that the House and Senate have stripped California's waiver to set their own tailpipe emissions standards. This new law also invalidates state laws that mandate future EV only sales requirements. If I'm reading this correctly, this also means there will not be a separate California version of automobiles sold and only the Federal standard will be used nation wide.

Senate Votes to End California’s EV Mandate

That is likely gonna be WAR between Uncle Sam and the California governments....
I always thought , even though bizarre at times that California governments have done a great job with pollution in their state. I recall in the 1970s watching the evening national news with my grandfather they would have a Los Angeles "Smog update" with photos nightly! It was that bad back then.

 

[Chris142]

Good.

Wonder if that means non-emissions diesel fleets will be allowed back in California.

I sure do miss seeing an old Pete 359 or kw w900.

 

[CKN]

I will repeat what I have posted probably a dozen times before-
I grew up in So. Cal in the 60's. We used to go out to my Grandma's house in the San Gabriel Valley on the weekends/holidays. It was twenty miles as the crow flies to the San Gabriel Mountains. The air was so dirty-it would be rare to see them. The only time they could be seen is when the winds came in and literally blew the smog to Victorville. My throat would hurt badly from playing outside and breathing the air.
CARB changed all that.
Today-there are more vehicles registered in California than any other state-and the air is cleaner than it has ever been.
It's easy for someone to sit in Virginia and say "great".
Well...I lived it.
Not only is this a step backwards for California-but a step backwards for state rights.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I will repeat what I have posted probably a dozen times before-
I grew up in So. Cal in the 60's. We used to go out to my Grandma's house in the San Gabriel Valley on the weekends/holidays. It was twenty miles as the crow flies to the San Gabriel Mountains. The air was so dirty-it would be rare to see them. The only time they could be seen is when the winds came in and literally blew the smog to Victorville. My throat would hurt badly from playing outside and breathing the air.
CARB changed all that.
Today-there are more vehicles registered in California than any other state-and the air is cleaner than it has ever been.
It's easy for someone to sit in Virginia and say "great".
Well...I lived it.
Not only is this a step backwards for California-but a step backwards for state rights.

YES. I clearly recall seeing the situation covered often on the news back in the 70s. I know it was bad.

 

[Overfill]

So the federal regulations and preventions to mitigate SMOG have not advanced since the 70s..?

 

[dogememe]

I will repeat what I have posted probably a dozen times before-
I grew up in So. Cal in the 60's. We used to go out to my Grandma's house in the San Gabriel Valley on the weekends/holidays. It was twenty miles as the crow flies to the San Gabriel Mountains. The air was so dirty-it would be rare to see them. The only time they could be seen is when the winds came in and literally blew the smog to Victorville. My throat would hurt badly from playing outside and breathing the air.
CARB changed all that.
Today-there are more vehicles registered in California than any other state-and the air is cleaner than it has ever been.
It's easy for someone to sit in Virginia and say "great".
Well...I lived it.
Not only is this a step backwards for California-but a step backwards for state rights.

OK, but don’t you think all modern vehicles are so clean that it doesn’t matter anymore?