Congrats to AMSOIL for achieving the impossible

[moribundman]

quote:

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the engine test performance requirements and engine wear protection requirements

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Whose and what requirements are they? (As previously asked)

quote:

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very close to meeting A3/B3 due to the shear stability requirements

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That can be paraphrased as "does not quite meet A3/B3 due to lack of meeting shear stability requirements." In this case AMSOIL talks about the carmaker's requirements.

Forked tongue syndrome! I don't know how you can put up with it.

 

[Schmoe]

Ohhhh, starting to understant the situation better. It's just a use of words and spec's. Arguments flow on both sides. However, I can totally understand SUNRG question as to the purpose of Amsoil making a claim when in fact it does not meet a requirement for the HTHS, therefore, it shouldn't be listed. Speculation at best.

 

[bulwnkl]

quote:

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HTHS, a measure of an oil's viscosity under high temperature and shear (stress), is absolutley a performance specification.

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No, it isn't. It's a physical property or physical spec. You're inferring that a performance differential results from the different physical property. That debate is totally separate and you can resurrect dozens (hundreds?) of threads on it if you'd like. Or wait a few days and wait for another repeat of it to show up.

quote:

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Whose and what requirements are they?

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The ACEA's. They're available to the public on the ACEA website.

[ March 08, 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: bulwnkl ]

 

[Papa Bear]

What is ACEA ?? I googled it and came up with 2,700,000 different websites ??

P.B.

 

[moribundman]

If AMSOIL is talking about meeting ACEA requirements then they are certainly mistaken. ACEA A3 requires HTHS >3.5.

See for yourself: ACEA & API Tables
(If you click, you will download a small 32kb PDF file).

However, ACEA A1 requires an XW-30 to have HTHS 2.6-3.5. With HTHS 3.4, AMSOIL 0W-30 may well meet ACEA A1, but cannot meet A3. QED.

 

[moribundman]

Papa Bear, the ACEA is the 'Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles' (European Automobile Manufacturers Association). Think of it as the European version of the API.

ACEA website

 

[Papa Bear]

Thank you, Mori. You are a gentleman.

P.B.

 

[OriginHacker21]

Wow that ACEA and API table really cleared up a lot of questions... thx moribundman!

I see now - A1 2.6>3.5

Mobil 1 EP meets A5 I think - Amsoil should too? or does it fall below 2.9 grade.

 

[Pablo]

I borrowed this from my Canadian counterpart:

quote:

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...we are not Public Relations Agents for Amsoil....

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[Pablo]

I have gained respect for bulwinkl. Thanks.

I'm not sure why folks struggle with "performance specification." In the Infineum table that would be the "engine tests"

 

[OriginHacker21]

In interesting thread along with this: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000859;p=1#000003
"""
shanneba
Member
Member # 4515


A1/B1 and A5/B5 are both less than 3.5 in HTHS.


A3/B3 or A3/B4 are both >3.5 HTHS.
"""

Can someone explain HTHS to a car enthusiast?

 

[ColdCranker]

OriginHacker21,
I see what you are observing about Mobil1 EP 5w-30. Also note Mobil1 0w-40, considered a tough motor oil, is NOT rated to A5. That makes me think Mobil1 EP is the bad-a** oil and the others are coming in second.

 

[SUNRG]

quote:

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HTHS number (for example) is not a performance specification, but rather a physical specification

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HTHS, a measure of an oil's viscosity under high temperature and shear (stress), is absolutley a performance specification. Engines are designed to function optimally using oils within specified HTHS ranges.

The latest VW OEM spec has a 0.09 HTHS range (VW 507.00 HTHS = 3.50 to 3.59). Point being - HTHS matters. HTHS viscosity is often if not always more critical and relevant than SAE viscosity (0w-30, etc.).

Pablo - Amsoil's crossed a line with this, and you know it. You're well respected in this community - but if you try to convince the relatively informed members here at BITOG that HTHS is not directly tied to application specific oil performance - I for one will lose some of my regard for your posts.

 

[Schmoe]

whoa Nelly.....everybody chill.

 

[OriginHacker21]

Ok so when Amsoil 0w30 says it works for all those HTHS numbers it just can't because the range is too big? Wouldn't Amsoil meet a1,2,3 because it is 3.4 where the limit is 3.5? "engines are designed to function optimally using oils within specified HTHS ranges."

Amsoil is the best oil in my opinion - The best oils will always come under the most scrutiny. (A good thing).

I for one just learned how to change my oil a few months ago so my knowledge about the technical side is definitely lacking. >>> Thanks SUNRG for the explanation!

 

[Pablo]

HTHS is an oil measurement, not a performance specification. I'm not saying it's not important. But please can someone tell me, that an oil with an HTHS with 3.6 will make an engine last longer than an oil with an HTHS of 3.4?

I do agree with Bullwinkle on the ACEA A1/B1 and A3/B3 , and I will write a letter to Amsoil Tech on the subject.

 

[Primus]

We may see similar contradictions with others. How can the same oils meet specs of GM-LL-A-025 and GM-LL-B-025 ? Usually, the oils that bear one approval like LL-A-025 are also qualified for ACEA A5/B5, but LL-B-025 - for ACEA A3/B3. Another good example: Castrol SLX Longtec 0W-30, the here of our numerous discussions here, bears A-025/B-025, ACEA A3/B3, but has HT/HS = 3.45. Don't this look quite strange ?

 

[Primus]

Sorry, forgot to paste the link:

http://vectra.opel.com/brand_sites/...s/Vectra_oil_retailers.pdf#search='Opel oils'

 

[RandyBarnett]

Basicly they think 3.4 is close enough and if it was actually 3.5 it would meet A5 and exceed A1. Does the .1 make a real difference to us? I don't know.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by RandyBarnett:
Basicly they think 3.4 is close enough and if it was actually 3.5 it would meet A5 and exceed A1. Does the .1 make a real difference to us? I don't know.

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No, if it was exactly 3.5 it wouldn't meet A5 or A3. A3 calls for HTHS of >3.5 while A5 calls for <3.5.