Congrats to AMSOIL for achieving the impossible

Messages
23,591
On the AMSOIL site they claim: AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 0W-30 Motor Oil meets or exceeds the engine protection requirements of all domestic and foreign gasoline and diesel engines specifying the following: * API SL/CF, SJ, SH * ILSAC GF-2, GF-3 * ACEA A1/B1, A2/B2, A3/B3 * Chrysler MS-6395M * Ford WSS-M2C-913A/B * GM 4718M, 6094M * VW 502.00 (HTHS is 3.4) * DaimlerChrysler 229.5, 229.3 * JASO VTW How does it meet VW 502 with HTHS 3.4? And how does AMSOIL overcome ACEA A1/B1, A2/B2, A3/B3 being mutually exclusive?
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman: I'm not going to dignify that with a reply other than a sad smirk, Pablo.
But he's correct. The language Amsoil uses doesn't say that the oil meets those various specs. It's just like Castrol saying their GTX High Mileage 5w30 meets the engine protection requirements of GF-4, when the oil actually doesn't meet ALL the GF-4 requirements (like for fuel economy).
 
If Amsoil didn't meet those specs then they wouldn't be allowed to put those specs on their oil containers? I don't see anywhere on the oil container that it says it DOESN'T meet those specs... If McDonalds can be sued for not putting HOT on their coffee then Amsoil would have been sued a long time ago for not meeting those specs. Pablo is right - the oil performs and that is proof enough for me to use it.
 
Messages
2,187
Location
Arizona
You know, I normally don't mind the language that Amsoil and RedLine (to name just two that spring immediately to mind) use on their bottles about meeting the performance requirements of... I'm not much concerned with the purchase of an expensive license so long as I'm satisfied that the company has actually done the performance testing. However, I think I might be with mori on this one. A1/B1 and A3/B3 are mutually exclusive. Now, I understand that the HTHS number (for example) is not a performance specification, but rather a physical specification, so the language is accurate I suppose. Perhaps if I didn't happen to know the specific differences between A1 and A3 I wouldn't mind. Perhaps there are such differences between API SL and SM (for example). Still, I don't care for this particular kind of labeling AT ALL. Choose A1 or A3, please.
 
Messages
671
Location
Texas
I have same problem with how Amsoil "states" their ATF Compatibility. Per the AMSOIL website: "AMSOIL ATF is recommended for transmission, hydraulic and other applications requiring any of the following specifications: GM DEXRON® II & III Ford MERCON®, MERCON® V Chrysler ATF+ through ATF+4® Honda Z-1 (Not for use in CVT transmissions) Toyota Type T and T-IV .... list continues” Recommended for Honda Z-1 specification is a very loose statement. ANY Dex III fluid manufacture could make this same "statement" in regards to Honda Z-1. I know they are not using the "meets or exceeds" verb age in the statement above, but saying 'recommended where Honda Z-1 is required' I feel is a play on words which I feel is not correct.
 

moribundman

Thread starter
Messages
23,591
quote:
But please can someone tell me, that an oil with an HTHS with 3.6 will make an engine last longer than an oil with an HTHS of 3.4?
Who in this thread said the engine would last longer with a higher HTHS? Nobody said that. Don't sidetrack us with a deliberately planted red herring. Stay with the real issue. VW just happens to require a minimum HTHS of 3.5 for any oil that wants to meet VW 502.00. AMSOIL 0W-30 has an HTHS of 3.4 (per AMSOIL!) and thus cannot qualify as a VW 502.00 oil, no matter how good this oil is, and how no matter how much AMSOIL insists it "meets or exceeds blah blah performance specs." If an oil doesn't meet the spec, the spec does not belong on the bottle. Basta.
 
Messages
64
Location
Roanoke, VA
quote:
But please can someone tell me, that an oil with an HTHS with 3.6 will make an engine last longer than an oil with an HTHS of 3.4?
if an engine maker requires an oil's HTHS to be above 3.5, that means the absolute low limit for HTHS would be 3.6, and no one (Amsoil included) should recommend a 3.4 HTHS oil for use in that application. OEM and ACEA specs are NOT stating "3.6 is the HTHS goal" and Amsoil's saying "3.4 is close enough" - OEM and ACEA are stating "3.6 is the rock bottom HTHS lower limit". [FWIW - the 507.00 VW OEM spec is the only spec i know of where the allowable HTHS range is measured in thousandths - 0.01 increments. All other OEM, ACEA and API HTHS ranges are in tenths - 0.1 increments. the very latest oil technologies are incredible.]
 
[poof] [Dummy!] I think we concluded earlier in this little thread that Amsoil doesn't say it MEETS every single spec listed. Anyone can see that what Amsoil is trying to say - as PABLO pointed out very well - "meets or exceeds the engine protection requirements". Ok, so the conclusion is... Amsoil will perform better in a VW than another oil with the 507.00 VW spec. THAT is what Amsoil is trying to say... <> Please correct me if I am wrong. What this looks like is a HATE thread against Amsoil and Pablo. Very sad. [Mad] [Bang Head]
 

moribundman

Thread starter
Messages
23,591
That's no hate thread. We all love Pablo! Please, somebody who's in the know define for me "the engine protection requirements." 1. Whose requirements are those? AMSOIL's? The carmakers'? Santa Clause's? 2. What exactly are "the engine protection requirements"? Please explain comprehensively.
 
Messages
34,155
Location
Southern NJ
It gets worse. For the last few months, the 0w-30 is now only 10.5 cSt @ 100C with a HT/HS of only 3.2 or 3.3 (Tooslick posted this awhile back). So this oil does not meet ACEA A3 and you can't be both A1 and A3. Not trying to trash the oil as it performs well in certain applications, but for $9qt, they should be more specific and accurate in reporting specs. *This is not a hate thread at all. Pablo is a good guy but it doesn't mean we can't criticize Amsoil bc he represents them on BITOG. All are open to criticism.
 
quote:
Originally posted by moribundman: That's no hate thread. We all love Pablo!
That makes me feel better [Smile] . Buster has a good point tho. *** Hats off to Pablo who said he is going to write to Amsoil about this.
 
Messages
47,771
Location
Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
Q1:
quote:
A1/B1 and A3/B3 are mutually exclusive. How can the 0W-30 meet both?
A1:
quote:
In response to your inquiry, the 0W-30 is currently A1/B1 and very close to meeting A3/B3 due to the shear stability requirements. The 0W-30 does, however, meet the engine test performance requirements and engine wear protection requirements for A1/B1 and A3/B3.
 
Top