Comparing Champ filters to AC Delco (hint, theyre the same)

[ZeeOSix]

I suggest that the in-house minimum standard for the flagship is higher than the generic.

Not necessarily ... there is no "in house" test standard unless the filter maker doesn't test to any published filter test standard and they "wing it" on their own ... but no big name filter brand is going to do that. Some off the wall branded filter might.

I will never buy oil filters that do no reference ISO 4548-12 test info, which doesn't actually set minimum requirements. The only test standard I know of that actually set minimum test performance standards is USCAR-36. In the oil filter world, there is no standard that they HAVE to meet, so it's up to the customer to figure out which test standard was used and what the results were on the filters they want to buy.

 

[sloinker]

Not necessarily ... there is no "in house" test standard unless the filter maker doesn't test to any published filter test standard and they "wing it" on their own ... but no big name filter brand is going to do that. Some off the wall branded filter might.

I will never buy oil filters that do no reference ISO 4548-12 test info, which doesn't actually set minimum requirements. The only test standard I know if that actually sets a minimum standards is USCAR-36. In the oil filter world, there is no standard that they HAVE to meet, so it's up to the customer to figure out which test standard was used and what the results were on the filters they want to buy.

Any reputable manufacturer is absolutely going to test their products for quality, functionality and repeatability. The in-house standard for a branded product most likely is tighter than a contracted customers brand. You see this in the food industry quite often. You buy a box of Kellogg's corn flakes and see the uniformity and percentage of broken, burned, misshapen flakes compared to the Sam's Choice brand flakes that come from the same factory. There will be a visible difference. This is purely aesthetic. Oil filters on the other hand must do a job to a minimum of expectations. Some filters from the same factory for the same application are inferior to others. This is usually tied to brand and price. It's the way it is. I'm not even talking about ISO certification or testing here. The product producer is going to insure that his name brand filter is both perceived and in fact, superior to the generic filter. This used to be true of Die Hard batteries. Probably not so much anymore.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Any reputable manufacturer is absolutely going to test their products for quality, functionality and repeatability. The in-house standard for a branded product most likely is tighter than a contracted customers brand. You see this in the food industry quite often. You buy a box of Kellogg's corn flakes and see the uniformity and percentage of broken, burned, misshapen flakes compared to the Sam's Choice brand flakes that come from the same factory. There will be a visible difference. This is purely aesthetic. Oil filters on the other hand must do a job to a minimum of expectations. Some filters from the same factory for the same application are inferior to others. This is usually tied to brand and price. It's the way it is. I'm not even talking about ISO certification or testing here. The product producer is going to insure that his name brand filter is both perceived and in fact, superior to the generic filter. This used to be true of Die Hard batteries. Probably not so much anymore.

What you theorize wouldn't necessarily hold true in the oil filter world, because of what I already mentioned. There are only a few oil filter test standards, and any company who wants to tout their specs is going to test to those standards and reference those test standards. They are not going to "make up" their own test specs and procedures.

 

[sloinker]

The company in question most likely has a quality control department that does test for in house minimum standards along with whatever requirements that they may be subjected to by say, automakers? Those in house minimum standards may vary by product and brand. The only way to know would be to talk to someone at the factory who would have this knowledge. Are all two ply toilet tissues the same? How about the plant that produces Charmin? Are the store brand tissues they manufacture on the same paper machines exactly the same?
Nope. Will they both do the job? Yep. Will one do the job better than the other? Yep. It boils down to in house specifications and testing of product. You build a couple reels of tissue that flunks the in house testing for Charmin acceptability. Do you slab it into the pulper? Maybe, or do you make Kirkland brand two ply toilet tissue with it?

 

[ZeeOSix]

The company in question most likely has a quality control department that does test for in house minimum standards along with whatever requirements that they may be subjected to by say, automakers? Those in house minimum standards may vary by product and brand. The only way to know would be to talk to someone at the factory who would have this knowledge.

If you knew the oil filter test specs out there (there are only a few), and have tracked filter brands to see what specs they reference then you'd see it's not like making toilet paper or anything else like that. There's no official "test specs procedure" for toilet paper that I know of ... do you?

Have you read any of this thread?

Would you all like to see ISO 4548-12 Oil Filter Lab Testing Comparison, Efficiency & Capacity, Pressure vs Flow, Bubble Point, and Burst?

I have this as a “watched” thread, so if you do happen to start a new one, could you put a note or link in this one to direct followers to the new thread? Thanks!! Yes, no problem I can do that.

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[SC Maintenance]

There's not official "test specs" for toilet paper that I know

There is a spec controlled by the manufacturer, otherwise it wouldn't be the same each time. When I buy my brand this week, next week, or a year from now - its the same.

Which is way more than I can say for Fram oil filter construction

 

[ZeeOSix]

There is a spec controlled by the manufacturer, otherwise it wouldn't be the same each time. When I buy my brand this week, next week, or a year from now - its the same.

Which is way more than I can say for Fram oil filter construction

They might have specs for two different configurations, and the same media could be called out in each configuration spec. Without seeing the detailed engineering and production info, it's anyone's theory/guess.

 

[SC Maintenance]

They might have specs for two different configurations, and the same media could be called out in each configuration spec. Without seeing the detailed engineering and production info, it's anyone's theory/guess.

Yes, were all guessing about everything.

My "guess" from being in manufacturing my whole life, is they have line(s) that run Fram builds, and they have line(s) that run Champ builds, and they run the high volume low margin orange can on whatever line doesn't have a full schedule. So there not actually changing components on the line - there simply painting the filter orange or silver at the end.

 

[ZeeOSix]

My "guess" from being in manufacturing my whole life, is they have line(s) that run Fram builds, and they have line(s) that run Champ builds, and they run the high volume low margin orange can on whatever line doesn't have a full schedule. So there not actually changing components on the line - there simply painting the filter orange or silver at the end.

Orange or silver ... you talking about the EG and TG colors? I highly doubt the guts of the EG and TG are exactly the same if that's what you're saying.

Who knows exactly what they're doing. I've been in configuration control and manufacturing for half of my long career.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Orange or silver ... you talking about the EG and TG colors? I highly doubt the guts of the EG and TG are exactly the same if that's what you're saying.

Who knows exactly what they're doing. I've been in configuration control and manufacturing for half of my long career.

No, Champ XL (silver) vs Fram EG (orange) or in this case, AC Delco (blue), and in the old days Supertech MP (different blue)

 

[Snagglefoot]

I have been using the Champ XL filters for a couple of years now and noticed they share some of the same features that some AC fliters do, not all but enough to notice. Understanding that they are both made by Champion labs it was not surprising.
In the past I compared a cartridge filter for my 2014 Cruze from AC to the Champ unit I bought and they could not have been more similar.
I decided I wanted to see is if the standard Champ filter 10063 matched up to the standard AC PF63. I didnt really need more for my stash but for $2.03 I thought it would be fun. The pictures speak for themselves. Crazy that Rockauto sells the Champ for $2.03 when its the same filter as a PF63 that I bought at my local Chevy dealer for around $7. Notice that the color coding on the gasket is even the same. The pics of the core appear the same even though the shading in the picture seems different. Bad lighting and a camera phone are to blame.
I was going to cut them open but it seems so obvious that I couldnt bring myself to sacrifice them.
See for yourself

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I opened a Canadian Tire OE Plus ( they are not sealed) and they still have the extra plate in top. In US dollars it’s $8.40 and goes on sale regularly.

 

[mrsilv04]

New PF48 without the double base plate. Definitely different looking...

If I'm reading the manufacture date correct, it was made the 145th day of 2024 (May 24th).

 

[Sayjac]

New PF48 without the double base plate. Definitely different looking...

If I'm reading the manufacture date correct, it was made the 145th day of 2024 (May 24th).


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Yep, eliminating the long time Champ Labs ecore outer plate make it same as Fram smaller filters, e.g. 7317, 6607, unbeveled protruding thread boss. I read an explanation on this sub forum that stated a "GM dealer parts guy" said it was removed because newer GM (23-24) that use it were having some leak issues because the filter wasn't able to screw on tightly enough. Count "me" as skeptical on that explanation. Guess time will tell time if the plate is removed on other Champ ecore applications besides the PF48.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I read an explanation on this sub forum that stated a "GM dealer parts guy" said it was removed because newer GM (23-24) that use it were having some leak issues because the filter wasn't able to screw on tightly enough.

Might be possible if the OD of the threaded filter mount "spud" interferes with the outside base plate.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I’ve never had any trouble with the flat plate and in fact I might pick up some OE Plus filters next sale before they put the new ones on the shelf, probably with a corresponding price increase. Also, I use them for two OCI’s.
Frankly what’s the purpose of using a pipe end if there is no flat plate to go with it?