Cold starts easy peasy with 10W30

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

dustyroads, your temperatures should be fine. Here's a couple of charts that I've lifted from some older studies, but should help explain what you saw...your engine will be different, and behave differently, but the trend is there. Two measures are used in the "W" rating of your oil, yours being 10W. MRV and CCS. MRV is how the oil flows under low shear rates, in feeding the pickup screen, and flowing into the pump to be pushed around. CCS is how the engine cranks. Here's an idea of what the "W" rating does to the startability of an engine...the CCS moves the "startable" point, which is the engine turning over quick enough to fire to the cold end. Here's what the MRV does, and this particular test on two oils shows that the establishment of oil pressure depends on how well the oil makes it to the pump to be pushed into the oil galleries (much smaller extent on how it flows THROUGH the galleries). Same thing, lower "W" moves the behaviours to the colder ranges... RAOT is how long oil took to flow from the rockers (on that engine), and FOPT is the time to full oil pressure. In the starts that you describe, there would be little to no change in your 4 seconds by going to a 5W or 0W...drop another 10F, and the 10W might take another 10-15 seconds to do the same, and a 5W would be in it's realm.

Thanks Shannow. I knew about the cold crank numbers (in the most elementary way) hadn't thought about the MRV numbers and just how they pertained to cold flow. Very cool seeing those times for each oil. I have tried a dozen times to download the PDF for Delo SD 15W30 but it fails each time. I wanted to see how that compares to a 10W30 in the CCS. Maybe it wouldn't say, anyway. I know being a 15W it wouldn't compare favorably to 10W30 but as a 30 grade I'm curious as to how it looks vs a 15W40 in cold testing. Thanks again for the info. I will use -26 or so as my cutoff. Anything colder, I will figure on idling (with 10W30).

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker

Well, since I started using a 10w30 blend in my factory rebuilt 2000 12.7L Detroit 60, it has done much better on cold starts and overall operation. So even somewhat older heavy truck engines can benefit. Detroit lube manual allows for year round use of 10w30 in all of it's MBE, Series 60, and DD13/15 engines.

Good to hear. I actually felt good running T6 in the fall/early winter but never had to test it's cold start abilities. After the cold start test I recently experienced, I think I'm good with 10W30. Excellent cold starting oil and very reasonable in cost. I know you're using Schaeffer oil. I may try them out based on the price and delivery info you've mentioned in the past. Sounds like a pretty good deal. I've been going back and forth between getting oil changed on road and doing it myself.

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Rotella T6 5W40 and T5 10W30 do have similar cold starting viscosities. I did try one winter with 15W40 in my tractor and even at -10C, starting was a bit more difficult than I liked. I'm back to 5W40 and now only worry about the hydraulic fluid getting up to temp in cold weather.

I grew up on a dairy farm and ran lots of tractors. We kept a couple tractors in the barn during winter so never had any troubles. Do the hydraulics give much trouble?

 

[Pontual]

My gf always bought the cheapiest oils there is available to her ex Subaru Impreza 93 EJ, until I tried to educate her. Mission not accomplished. I took as manager of the cars, since we are married with childen now. Once she changed it with straight 50 SF on it and brought a little remaining, thats how Ive discovered that. Pity. I started it a 0C and it started pretty normally. Amazing.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: dustyroads

Thanks Shannow. I knew about the cold crank numbers (in the most elementary way) hadn't thought about the MRV numbers and just how they pertained to cold flow. Very cool seeing those times for each oil. I have tried a dozen times to download the PDF for Delo SD 15W30 but it fails each time. I wanted to see how that compares to a 10W30 in the CCS. Maybe it wouldn't say, anyway. I know being a 15W it wouldn't compare favorably to 10W30 but as a 30 grade I'm curious as to how it looks vs a 15W40 in cold testing. Thanks again for the info. I will use -26 or so as my cutoff. Anything colder, I will figure on idling (with 10W30).

Try this one ? https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=413394&docFormat=PDF If it was available in Oz, it would probably be in my garage. If an oil is listed as a multigrade, and has Viscosity modifying additives, then it MUST be listed to the lowest W grade that it passes. So yes, the Delo is clearly a 15W, and your oil a 10W, so there's 9F difference in test realms for them both, 10W clearly superior in your case. CCS and MRV, the 15W40 would be about the same as the 15W30 delo, but with higher viscosity and HTHS the 40 would use a percent or two more fuel.

 

[Olas]

10w40 pumps down to -20celsius, 5w and 0w really only *needs* to be used in the polar regions (not quite but you get what I mean)

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Olas

10w40 pumps down to -20celsius, 5w and 0w really only *needs* to be used in the polar regions (not quite but you get what I mean)

SAE J300 was revised some few years ago. 10W is now spec'd at -30C for pumping and -25C for cranking.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Pontual

My gf always bought the cheapiest oils there is available to her ex Subaru Impreza 93 EJ, until I tried to educate her. Mission not accomplished. I took as manager of the cars, since we are married with childen now. Once she changed it with straight 50 SF on it and brought a little remaining, thats how Ive discovered that. Pity. I started it a 0C and it started pretty normally. Amazing.

The thing is that 0C is not really cold at all. I can see -30F, -34C, as an extreme on a ski weekend, when I have to park outside. 32F is a midweight jacket day, unless the wind is blowing 40mph and/or it's raining.

 

[Dak27]

Glad to hear it, Dusty, and thanks for posting! I switched over from 15W40 Delvac 1300 to Delvac Elite 10W30 in late December of last year, and my Series 60 Detroit seems to start easier. Zero oil consumption thus far. I'm going to stick with the 10W30 for one more pm service, and switch back to the 15W40 once the outside temperatures start to climb up across the country. Be safe, and best regards!

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: Dak27

Glad to hear it, Dusty, and thanks for posting! I switched over from 15W40 Delvac 1300 to Delvac Elite 10W30 in late December of last year, and my Series 60 Detroit seems to start easier. Zero oil consumption thus far. I'm going to stick with the 10W30 for one more pm service, and switch back to the 15W40 once the outside temperatures start to climb up across the country. Be safe, and best regards!

Sounds like a good plan Dak. I ran the Delvac Elite 10W30 last year from June to late October and it did fine. My engine is programmed to run high oil temps and super low rpm, so it seems like a good test of an oil. The 10W30 did fine last summer. Since finding BITOG I've been all over the place with my oil choices. I may adopt your plan but it has become hard to say. Be safe out there, yourself.

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Originally Posted By: dustyroads

Thanks Shannow. I knew about the cold crank numbers (in the most elementary way) hadn't thought about the MRV numbers and just how they pertained to cold flow. Very cool seeing those times for each oil. I have tried a dozen times to download the PDF for Delo SD 15W30 but it fails each time. I wanted to see how that compares to a 10W30 in the CCS. Maybe it wouldn't say, anyway. I know being a 15W it wouldn't compare favorably to 10W30 but as a 30 grade I'm curious as to how it looks vs a 15W40 in cold testing. Thanks again for the info. I will use -26 or so as my cutoff. Anything colder, I will figure on idling (with 10W30).

Try this one ? https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=413394&docFormat=PDF If it was available in Oz, it would probably be in my garage. If an oil is listed as a multigrade, and has Viscosity modifying additives, then it MUST be listed to the lowest W grade that it passes. So yes, the Delo is clearly a 15W, and your oil a 10W, so there's 9F difference in test realms for them both, 10W clearly superior in your case. CCS and MRV, the 15W40 would be about the same as the 15W30 delo, but with higher viscosity and HTHS the 40 would use a percent or two more fuel.

Thanks again Shannow. Unfortunately I still can't get that PDF downloaded. It keeps failing on my phone but when I get home I will try again on my PC. I have a renewed interest in trying the 15W30 myself but it seems like the advertising for it has gone away. I don't think it's selling well and I wonder if it's here to stay. I saw some jugs on a truckstop shelf that were covered in dust. I think it had a bottling date of july 2014. Chevron was pushing it towards the construction business, too. Maybe they will keep it alive.