Cold Engine Growling And Grinding After Start

[rudyatforum]

October 30th I drove my 97 Saturn SW1 about 2 miles to a local repair shop for repair on ignition lock malfunction. The ignition key would sometimes pull off, a lot of times would not. They replaced the ignition lock cylinder and ignition switch. The bill was $420.

Day after the repairs, there was horrible growling and grinding in the engine after starting. The colder the engine, the worse the growling/grinding which would diminish, but not completely disappear, as the engine reached operating temperature. I thought it wasn't serious so I continued starting and driving the car.

Three days later the technician and the manager both said the growling/grinding was the sound generated by vibration from the muffler mounting transmitted to the engine block and there was nothing wrong with the engine. They suggested they would improve the muffler mounting for $100. I did not argue but turned down their suggestion. I knew they were covering up something.

Fourth day after the repair, the ignition key would not pull off again, this time permanently. Obviously the malfunction had not been repaired. I decided to examine the trouble myself. I found the shifter interlock was causing failure in the wheel lock and ignition key mechanisms. I was able to eliminate the malfunction. Those technicians made wrong analysis of the trouble, but replaced the ignition switch, which was also malfunctioning. A cool $420 bill for this job!

I limited the use of the car since then and about two weeks later I called my friend mechanic who insisted on examining the engine first. I drove the car about 10 miles to their shop. We waited more than an hour for the engine to cool down so it would growl and grind.

After examinations, they showed me the engine running without the drive belt on. There was no horrible growling and grinding. The engine was humming instead.

The verdict? The water pump was seized. Why and how it seized? They divulged to me a few theories.

My trusted friend mechanic replaced the water pump and showed me the seized pump. It took a big channel plier to turn the failed pump clamped in a huge shop vise. The engine could have been damaged and ruined had it continued running with this failed water pump.

The bill was a little over $300. It was well-worth it.

I drove the car home and completely drained the old antifreeze. I rinsed the engine cooling system with warm water and filled it to the mark with fresh antifreeze.

Now the "Old Saturn Engine" is humming like new, as it should and always did.

 

[Rolla07]

I thought that typically when a water pump gets replaced that they would do a flush and fill of the coolant as part of the process?

I would see your friend mechanic from now on and not go elsewhere. When you find someone reliable stick with them.

Glad they figured it out for you!!

 

[rudyatforum]

Yes, Rolla, I knew that too, but I wanted to see for myself that only new/fresh coolant was in the engine. My friend mechanic is the Manager and brain of the repair shop. His mechanic is also my friend but I'm not sure if he used some of the old coolant because I saw him lay down a huge pan to collect the old antifreeze after the car had been lifted.

 

[yonyon]

That's usually done mainly to keep the old antifreeze from running all over the floor.

 

[The_Jeff]

Collecting old AF is just good enivornmental practice.

My stick shift saturns also have ignition key cylinder slop. I work around it. I can remove my key with the car running, a bonus, as I can warm it up at work and re-enter the building with my keychain to stay warm.

The front exhaust on these cars has a clamp/ hanger thing under the oil pan that often gets lost. This puts a lot of stress on the downpipe flange. I use a $2 muffler clamp when this goes missing, typically to weld in a new flexpipe.

I'm not sure your original mechanics were 100% deceitful or dishonest; the description of the problem could have led them to replace a worn ignition like they've done many times already-- it is a wear part on these cars. Of course their diagnostic skills aren't the best, so don't go back.

 

[rudyatforum]

Hello eljefino:

'Glad you joined in with your ignition key cylinder experience. It was precisely for this reason that I chose to be a member of this forum so this sort of very rarely known and technically puzzling trouble can be made public.

The trouble I found was not in the ignition key cylinder. They do wear out and easily and commonly analyzed as the cause of the pestering malfunction. Exactly what those incompetent technicians did to my car. This very tiring malfunction (key would not pull off) was not caused by the ignition key cylinder but the Shifter Interlock Assembly. The real culprit was the Shifter Interlock Solenoid which was busted - no longer actuating (open coil circuit) when I tested it off the assembly. Since no longer actuating, its stem (or shaft) got in the way of the shifter linkage which then failed to actuate a switch that electrically controls the steering wheel lock and subsequently the key cylinder mechanisms. I have done a lot of searching and this interlock assembly is not described either in schematic diagram or operating manual of vehicles - probably reserved for brand dealers and practically unknown to mechanics without this particular experience.

I removed the Shifter Interlock Solenoid. The pestering malfunction is now gone, but there is one thing: The purpose of the solenoid is to prevent shifting from park when the brake pedal is not depressed. This was a safety feature regulation which was started on 1995 models (to my knowledge). This means I have by-passed this safety feature, but what the heck, what driver does not have enough brain to step on the brake while starting and thereafter driving the vehicle in any direction? An assembly to do this common sense is not only unnecessary but redundant and NOW A TROUBLE-MAKER. Besides, vehicles prior to this regulation never had this kind of safety feature. In fact, I read not too long ago that some late model vehicles no longer have this brake pedal-shifter interlock system. Probably vehicle manufacturers and dealers have found it to be a pest especially as the car gets older.

But the vehicle business is beset with a lot more serious design feature, namely: Of all the sensors designers put in a vehicle, there is not one that will detect/sense if something like the water pump is beginning to be or is already seized. Right now it is up to the driver of the vehicle to face the unprecedented trouble. I strongly believe car designers must incorporate a detector or sensor for any engine component that is bound to seize before such seizure damages/ruins the engine and may be end up the vehicle in a fatal crash.

 

[yonyon]

It hasn't got a temperature gauge or overheat light?

 

[rudyatforum]

Yonyon: No,nothing of that sort. Everything was normal, no MIL.

 

[locksmith]

we do those all the time. Sometimes the ignition cylinder is the problem (they do wear) but most of the time its the interlock system like you said..(an easy fix)
the cylinder costs us as locksmiths under $30.00 if we had to replace the cylinder the whole job would be around $175.00 if we have to come to you.
as for the water pump they should have known what was wrong.