Clutch job interesting find..

Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,188
Location
NY
Today my brother and I started doing a clutch job in my 88 E-150. The clutch was 27 years old and had about 80K miles on it. The slave cylinder was leaking, very slowly, that's what failed 27 years ago. It would occasionally chatter, and I want to use it to move us from NY to Florida in the near future, and I don't want problems. The job is turning out to be a real PITA. We need the hydraulic line which goes from the clutch master cylinder to the slave cylinder, and the male fitting that snaps in to connect it to the slave cylinder. I hopefully sourced one but won't know until I'm holding it in hand.

Here are a few pictures, if you look closely in the bell housing you'll see the remains of a mouse and his den. The disk was rusted to the spline which made for a PITA job. We had to do remove the bolts from the pressure plate in order to get the transmission out, it was not cooperating. My brother moved his come-along to Florida. We were going to attach that to either the rear axle or something else and try and get it out with that. In any event It's going to take longer than I had hoped while I wait for a hose and connection.

Tranny 1.jpg
clutch 3.jpg
clutch 2.jpg
slave 2.jpg
 

JTK

Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
14,632
Location
Buffalo, NY
Darn mice! Is this van an inline 6 w/ a 4 speed column shift?

Cool that parts are still available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JC1

demarpaint

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,188
Location
NY
Darn mice! Is this van an inline 6 w/ a 4 speed column shift?

Cool that parts are still available.
It's an I-6 with a 5 speed M5OD transmission. There were a lot of Rangers and F-Series pickups with that transmission, but very few vans. The parts I'm looking for are not so easy to come by. I'm hoping I can find the male piece to go into the slave cylinder, or I will be swapping it from the old unit and splicing the hydraulic hose if the parts I sourced don't fit.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
25,183
Location
Apple Valley, California
It's an I-6 with a 5 speed M5OD transmission. There were a lot of Rangers and F-Series pickups with that transmission, but very few vans. The parts I'm looking for are not so easy to come by. I'm hoping I can find the male piece to go into the slave cylinder, or I will be swapping it from the old unit and splicing the hydraulic hose if the parts I sourced don't fit.
Or find a bell housing,fork etc and put the hydraulics on the outside
 

demarpaint

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,188
Location
NY
Or find a bell housing,fork etc and put the hydraulics on the outside
I wish it was that easy. That sounds like it might be tough to do. The bell housing if part of the transmission, and can't be removed. I'd have to go for another transmission, probably something before they used the M5OD, and make quite a few mods. At that point I'd probably get rid of it and move with a POD.
 

D60

Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
1,064
Location
Colo
Yeah doing away with the internal slaves was common and easy on the Jeep 4.0/AX-15 because Chrysler did it later.

I'm not aware of Ford ever redesigning it on the M5OD. I also used to have an '88 Ranger with the 2.3 and whatever that 5 speed was -- same dumb internal slave design
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
184
Location
SK, Canada
we had an 80's F150 that used a slave cylinder on it. It was leaking so bad had to top of the reservoir daily with brake fluid. We did finally replace it, but it makes it a lot bigger job than it needs to be.
 

JTK

Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
14,632
Location
Buffalo, NY
I couldn't picture room on the floor for a floor shift with the engine cover in the way on a van, but there's actually plenty of room. Had to Google a pic of one.
 

demarpaint

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,188
Location
NY
I couldn't picture room on the floor for a floor shift with the engine cover in the way on a van, but there's actually plenty of room. Had to Google a pic of one.
It is actually not set up that bad, although why Ford put a POS M5OD in them leaves a lot to the imagination. They did team up with Mazda, but they should have used a ZF tranny instead and skipped the Mazda junk. The weather is holding me up today so nothing other than the RMS and pilot bearing went in. On the bright side I did manage to tape a closet early this morning and get a coat of spackle on it this afternoon, so I'm not losing any time waiting.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,034
Location
MN
I6 van with a manual?! Find yourself a cast iron 4-speed box that will bolt right up to your 300. I had an '89 F150 with that combo and loved it.
 

demarpaint

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,188
Location
NY
I6 van with a manual?! Find yourself a cast iron 4-speed box that will bolt right up to your 300. I had an '89 F150 with that combo and loved it.
If I were 30 years younger and had the patience to hunt one down I might have considered it. Keep in mind this is an E-150 and I'm sure there would be quite a few mods, especially to the floor to get it to bolt in properly. There were very few of them made, F-150 OTOH would be a lot easier. I would have looked for the ZF transmission they used in the bigger pick ups.
 

demarpaint

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,188
Location
NY
After some weather delays, appointments and waiting on a part it's done. I forgot to post this picture of the transmission drain plug. Not bad for a stick with 80K miles on the fluid.

Bleeding it was a bit of a PITA. What worked was jacking the van to the point that the clutch master cylinder was perfectly straight up and down, and then tapping it with a hammer handle to release any trapped air. As the air came out during the bleeding process we'd check through the inspection cover the movement of the clutch disk from the flywheel when the clutch was depressed and the bleeder closed. It took a while but works perfectly now. I could only imagine what a shop would have charged for parts and labor to do the job along with the RMS and front and rear transmission seals. I'm glad it is done and I hope it is the last clutch job I ever have to do.

plug.jpg
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,034
Location
MN
After some weather delays, appointments and waiting on a part it's done. I forgot to post this picture of the transmission drain plug. Not bad for a stick with 80K miles on the fluid.

Bleeding it was a bit of a PITA. What worked was jacking the van to the point that the clutch master cylinder was perfectly straight up and down, and then tapping it with a hammer handle to release any trapped air. As the air came out during the bleeding process we'd check through the inspection cover the movement of the clutch disk from the flywheel when the clutch was depressed and the bleeder closed. It took a while but works perfectly now. I could only imagine what a shop would have charged for parts and labor to do the job along with the RMS and front and rear transmission seals. I'm glad it is done and I hope it is the last clutch job I ever have to do.

View attachment 105245

Just in case you or anyone else runs across the utter despair that is bleeding a freshly installed internal slave cylinder in the future:

A few years ago I ran into the same issue after installing a clutch and slave in a mid-90's Saab 9-3. After fighting with it, I came across a procedure on some Saab forum that worked like a treat! It basically goes like this:

Attach a hose from the LF brake bleeder to the slave nipple

Open both bleeders

GENTLY press down on the brake pedal, causing brake fluid to be pushed backwards through the slave (along with any trapped air) out and up to the reservoir.

Close the clutch bleeder, then the caliper bleeder

Pump the clutch 5-10 times SLOWLY

Repeat the above one or two more times

I've used that trick on several clutch jobs since, and while it doesn't always work it has proven to be handy in a pinch.
 

demarpaint

Thread starter
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,188
Location
NY
Just in case you or anyone else runs across the utter despair that is bleeding a freshly installed internal slave cylinder in the future:

A few years ago I ran into the same issue after installing a clutch and slave in a mid-90's Saab 9-3. After fighting with it, I came across a procedure on some Saab forum that worked like a treat! It basically goes like this:

Attach a hose from the LF brake bleeder to the slave nipple

Open both bleeders

GENTLY press down on the brake pedal, causing brake fluid to be pushed backwards through the slave (along with any trapped air) out and up to the reservoir.

Close the clutch bleeder, then the caliper bleeder

Pump the clutch 5-10 times SLOWLY

Repeat the above one or two more times

I've used that trick on several clutch jobs since, and while it doesn't always work it has proven to be handy in a pinch.
It took a little while, but tapping on the clutch master cylinder helped a lot. It sent any remaining air up into the reservoir and out.
 

D60

Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
1,064
Location
Colo
IIRC we had a really hard time on this '88 Ranger with internal slave, too. We had started out trying to pump it, opening and closing the bleeder, etc etc.

Finally what worked best was to remove the idiots from the equation (such as myself) and just let it gravity bleed.
 
Joined
Sep 30, 2017
Messages
1,157
Location
Vancouver, BC Canada
It is actually not set up that bad, although why Ford put a POS M5OD in them leaves a lot to the imagination. They did team up with Mazda, but they should have used a ZF tranny instead and skipped the Mazda junk.
...
I know some of the shortcuts Mazda takes on some of their transaxles (e.g. having the speedgears run on splines with a lubricant feed hole in one of the spline teeth "roots" versus what Aisin and others do... speedgears on needle bearings)... and I also know that generally ZF makes good transmissions... but generally, what has led to your comment re Mazda gearboxes?
 
Top