Climate change - an oil based question.

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Global warming continues to be a hot topic (no pun intended). Certain people in high places are convinced the world is warming and this will spell hard times ahead for human kind, if not the downright end of humanity. The causes of this climate change are well known, greenhouse gases. If I understand the theory correctly, greenhouse gases are created every time you crank your car and drive around (I know this is simplistic, but it should work for my question, which is . . .)

If burning oil, (all oil related products) produces greenhouse gases and these gases were trapped millions or billions of years ago, aren't we simply returning the earth to a condition it has experienced before? The "carbon loop" is well known when you burn wood in your fireplace. The tree grew for 30 or 40 years, you cut it down, chopped it up, threw it in your fireplace and all the carbon the tree has contained while it grew is suddenly released in the fire. The very same thing happens if the tree falls down in the forest and is left to rot, as it decays, it slowly releases the carbon it has contained, (commonly called "the slow burn").

By using oil products, we're not introducing anything new to our world, but merely releasing something that was there a long time ago which, over time and in whatever way, has been trapped. Life obviously existed on our planet during this "pre-oil" period so I'm thinking it will continue to exist in a "post-oil" period. The world will change to be sure, but is that really such a bad thing? Yes, if all the oceans rise, there will be a mass migration inland and to higher ground, but my thinking is that then, northern areas will become warmer and have longer growing seasons, etc., (when the Vikings settled Greenland, it was a warm period that lasted for about 500 years. It was the earth getting colder that spelled the end of their Greenland settlement).

I'm sure there's people out there who are smarter than I am and can help me understand the rightness or wrongness of this thinking, but what say you guys? Don't you think that even if Global warming is true based on carbon emissions, we're merely re-introducing something that was here before and not adding anything new?

Thoughts, opinions, observations?
 
Global warming is a scam to fleece the taxpayer. When a lot of people figured the scam out they changed the name to climate change.
 
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/1975-tornado-outbreaks-blamed-on-global-cooling/

http://www.lostrepublic.us/archives/8256

You have an interesting way of looking at it. I cannot look at it from the same viewpoint though since I firmly believe it is all a hoax. See what "they" were pushing on us back in the 70's in the links above.

My opinion is that there are probably a hundred million cars in the USA. I would guess they average 10,000 miles a year. I do not see birds falling out of the sky and plants wilting everywhere. Could we be hurting the environment? Maybe
 
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Global warming is a scam to fleece the taxpayer. When a lot of people figured the scam out they changed the name to climate change.


This
 
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Global warming is a scam to fleece the taxpayer. When a lot of people figured the scam out they changed the name to climate change.


This


This X2. Forgetting that plants turn that CO2 back into O2. Forgetting that the planet has cooled and warmed in the past without human intervention.

But you have grant and other $$ tied in global warming research so that scientists are busy trying to find the link even when there was none there. And there are also indicators that CO2 levels may be a trailing indicator not the forward indicator.

So all these schemes are mainly to take $$ from my pocket rather than see if there is an issue and if man is the cause.
 
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Global warming is a scam to fleece the taxpayer. When a lot of people figured the scam out they changed the name to climate change.


I truely believe that there is warming / cooling in the form of NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE. The earth does whatever it wants.

However, "global warming" was invented as a way to make money. Don't think so?

Look at "Current" TV network. Al gore invented carbon credits, then started a TV network SOLELY to sell the carbon credits for money. Then sold the TV network.
 
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
The very same thing happens if the tree falls down in the forest and is left to rot, as it decays, it slowly releases the carbon it has contained, (commonly called "the slow burn").


I really have no opinion one way or the other on "climate change". That said, I think the difference that most claim is the rate at which carbon is being released back into the atmosphere. It's not a "slow burn", but a very rapid release, relative to the historical time scale. Again, I really have no opinion one way or the other, but that's the main argument as I understand it.

I do have experience in civil engineering, and this may be somewhat analagous to the concept of low impact development when looking at stormwater. We all know the hydro cycle...rain falls down, it flows into the ground or in rivers, it evaporates, and it rains again. So mainlining stormwater runoff from large parking lots should be no problem, right? It simply returns the water to the ground or the river, where it's going to go anyway. But it does cause issues; you have problems with urban flooding all the time, because of the vast amount of stormwater runoff that is mainlined to drainage channels, rather than infiltrating into the ground or draining slower into natural wetland areas or creek channels.

That may be somewhat similar to the argument about the carbon cycle. There's no more or less carbon existing than we had before, just as there's no more or less water existing than we had before. But the rapid transportation of carbon or water from one area to another may be the issue.
 
You are not taking into account the time factor. Over the past century and a half, we have been working on using resources that have taken millions of years to accumulate. If you take an analogy that might be widely understood on this site, it might help. When it comes to oil consumption for vehicle X with a 7 quart sump. 7 quarts of consumption over the lifespan of the car would probably be considered negligible and not even measurable. If it consumed 7 quarts of oil in 5 seconds, the outcome would probably be catastrophic.

Climate change is not something that is usually visible to the passive observer, therefore people will doubt that it is even happening. That is human nature.
 
It depends on how much carbon in the ecosystem there is, in the form of carbon dioxide. The carbon is all here, in one form or another. Either it is in the air or it is sitting on the shelf, so to speak. CO2 production is balanced out against the forces that sequester carbon, like oil production. There were, it seems, five or six events in the Earth's past (in the Mesozoic) where there was so much CO2 that the average temperature at the North Pole was about 72 degrees Fahrenheit. These were set off by massive volcanic activity and CO2 production. The tipping point is about at 1000 parts per million in the atmosphere. Ocean current circulation greatly slowed, the deep seas below about 100 meters became anoxic, and the deep sea ecosystem went extinct & was replaced by hydrogen-sulfide producing bacteria like we have in the Black Sea today. The lower waters were lifeless except for such bacteria. The top oceanic layers still teemed with life. Eventually the accumulation of buried dead matter on raining downon the global sea floor took the CO2 out, and the world returned to normal. It took hundreds of thousands of years. This made for the petroleum, kerogen, natural gas, we use today. The deep sea animal life, like today's cod and giant squid, had to evolve all over again, and previous forms were replaced.

We could set off another such cycle if we keep going down this path and keep releasing carbon into the atmosphere, but it would not go runaway for several centuries. Humans would survive, but the world would become hot, humid, stinky, and miserable to humans, and some regions would be too hot and humid to be habitable by people. At the same time, such a world would be very productive of life, but will be profoundly different from the world we live in today. There is feedback that can slow this process down, like plant production.

Ironically, some scientists think that about 600 million years from now, so much carbon will wind up sequestered again in the Earth's crust that almost all plant life, and therefore animal life, will be finally extinct.
 
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Global warming is a scam to fleece the taxpayer. When a lot of people figured the scam out they changed the name to climate change.


Exactly!
 
Nice to see some people giving THOUGHT to the "issue" instead of barfing up some political mantra. Even the New York Slimes has now admitted that warming stopped about 15 years ago. The "get'um me new grant" types are beside themselves in trying to spin this latest "discovery". I figure in another 100 years we might know some things for certain. Meantime, watch your pocketbooks.
 
I'd like to see the link for that...

Texas is on a streak of hot years over the past decade or so...

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Nice to see some people giving THOUGHT to the "issue" instead of barfing up some political mantra. Even the New York Slimes has now admitted that warming stopped about 15 years ago. The "get'um me new grant" types are beside themselves in trying to spin this latest "discovery". I figure in another 100 years we might know some things for certain. Meantime, watch your pocketbooks.
 
There is no well known or agreed upon cause of global warming, cooling or climate change. The earth has gone through warming and cooling cycles many times before humans started using fossil fuels. One volcano eruption emits more greenhouse gasses than humankind has over the last 50 years.
 
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It has not happened here yet. But in Europe they have carbon taxes. Pushes the price of already expensive electricity even higher. Also taxes on airline tickets. Just to name two. As I said a scam to fleece the taxpayer.
 
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I'd like to see the link for that...

Texas is on a streak of hot years over the past decade or so...

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Nice to see some people giving THOUGHT to the "issue" instead of barfing up some political mantra. Even the New York Slimes has now admitted that warming stopped about 15 years ago. The "get'um me new grant" types are beside themselves in trying to spin this latest "discovery". I figure in another 100 years we might know some things for certain. Meantime, watch your pocketbooks.
Just google "New York TImes climate change" and read all about it. Coldest spring here since the late 60's.
 
Even the people who were advocating "global warming" over the last decade have given up that term and have now switched to "climate change".

Can someone name for me a time since the Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago when the climate wasn't changing?
 
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Global warming is a scam to fleece the taxpayer. When a lot of people figured the scam out they changed the name to climate change.


Trying to deny the problem isn't helping.

When people say that the problem doesn't exist or call it a huge scam, they simply don't understand how the system works.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Even the people who were advocating "global warming" over the last decade have given up that term and have now switched to "climate change".

Can someone name for me a time since the Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago when the climate wasn't changing?


I am very happy it changed and warmed up since the last ice age 10,000 years ago, otherwise I would be sitting under a mile of ice.

smile.gif
 
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