Clickers, Frams, and E-cores, oh my (pics)

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"As far as I can tell from looking at various SuperTech and Bosch Premium filters, all E-cores are of part numbers which previously were supplies as the short lived clicker design."

The 3980 (Chevy 4.3 motor) has changed to the ecore design and it does NOT have the internal bypass.

As to how that "clicker" bypass is supposed to function..the only way I can see it working is that the oil has to come in through the central hole in the tensioner leaf spring and force the endcap to flex inward to expose access to those 6 smaller holes and then straight shot out the exit hole of the filter. Those that have tried to make that work manually obviously get that "cow at a new gate" look when they try it...no wonder it doesn't seem to be working. It possibly may depend on hot oil temp to make the metal expand sufficiently for that to happen-bad idea for a bypass that should work with cold oil.
The other suggestion about the cartridge actually pushing down on the leaf spring to activate the bypass may be a theoretical possibility,,,but I wouldn't be putting my money on that possibility at all. If that cartridge actually moved at all the oil would start short circuiting right at the inlet area instead of the far end.
Nope, I'm saying that "clicker" idea was a low percentage of success possibility right out of the box..not the first time I've seen a bad/marginal design make it from the first discussion over drinks at the bar to the drawing board to customer use....The ecore design at least looks like it can work,,,just gotta prove'em out a little longer far as I'm concerned.
 
quote:
Originally posted by goodvibes:

quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:

Speaking of which. Champ isn't discontinuing clicker valves because they are waiting to run down inventory. lol.

Click to expand...
I don't think anyone said this is why clickers are still around. It must take some time to design and meticulously
wink.gif
test new filters for every application and champion may not yet have enough production capacity on the e-core to just discontinue clickers even if they would prefer to. It seems that they didn't get it right. At least the fix is in and in pretty short order.
Click to expand...
Check out lubeowners post above mine from March 27, 2005 11:09 PM, the first paragraph last two sentences..


BTW...who asked about Mobil 1 v K&N filters and what is the difference. I can't find which thread it is in. I said i'd ask. The basic difference is the welded nut on the bottom of the K&N. Otherwise the construction is basically the same.
 
Bought an E-core filter today and sacrificed it!

It is a Value Tech V8A. I am actually impressed with the clever design of the bypass valve. It is molded into the same piece of rubber as the anti-drainback valve and there is a beauty to the simplicity of its design. They are not one and the same part of the rubber piece but the outside rim is the anti-drainback and the inside rim is the bypass and is a lot stiffer. How well does it work, I don't know, but I think I would prefer it over a clicker or any other dome end bypass valve. The holes for the bypass are smaller than the inlet holes, but that is also true of a clicker I believe.

As for the filter element, it looks pretty good. The plastic cage inside (instead of a metal perforated tube) looks fairly substantial and I doubt it would easily collapse. Surely the filter element would give way first, and that would be my bigger concern, althought the gaps are only about 7/16 of an inch wide along the ridge of the filter media fold (much wider crossways to the folds, but that should not be an issue). But all in all, it looks relatively trustworthy.

I pulled the cage out and a twist broke it in two (a metal tube will deform at the seam when twisted, even a spiral seam). Bearing down on half of it from the side with a block of wood and roughly 100 pounds of pressure shattered it (and would likely have mashed a metal tube to an oval). But both these tests do not appear to represent the kinds of pressure this cage would see in actual use and so probably were unfair. Prior to those destructive acts I grasped the cage in my fist and squeezed very hard, but did not get any noticible deformation or cracking. So I do think the cage is up to it.

The thing that really dismays me is the end caps (or more correctly in this case, end covers) of the filter cartridge insert. They appear to be a layered fiber material that actually appears relatively durable, but when I put very modest pressure on the edge of the bottom endcover it peeled neatly off the ends of the folded media, exposing a large area for unfiltered oil to leak through. Kind of a defacto bypass. This is rather unfortunate, because if I were considering to use this filter, I surely won't now knowing that. This edge is right where the inrushing oil will hit as it nears the dome end of the can before passing through the filter element. The threaded end cover was a little better secured, but still easily peeled away.

The filter cartridge is as long as that of the old style V8A with the metal end caps and clicker bypass (in spite of the new one having about half inch shorter can), but for the little bit of the old style filter that is within the end cap. This was likely achievable because of the combination bypass and anti-drainback. It still had a spring metal piece in the dome end, perhaps to ensure a tight fit and it plugs the back end of the media element interior area.

Well, maybe over time this design will improve. I do like the simplicity of it and the very open plastic cage looks like it could help flow rates. For now, I stick with threaded end bypass Purolators (L40017) and Motorcrafts (FL1A).
 
I'm dismayed by the reported lack of secure fastening of the ends on the ecore. I found the design, in concept, kinda neat. IIRC, we have only seen this in new ecores ..and no one has yet used one in service and taken it apart and found torn or seperated media/ends?? Or did I miss this??
confused.gif
 
Gary,

I did. The media seam glue had dissolved.
shocked.gif


Also saw another with the pleats loose off the cap. We have been using them for awhile now and probably have a few thousand in service which will be returning soon. Will keep you all posted.
 
quote:
I'm dismayed by the reported lack of secure fastening of the ends on the ecore. I found the design, in concept, kinda neat.
Click to expand...
Ditto. Dare I say that the Ecore would be a good filter if they would use Frams Cardboard and adhesive system for the endcaps?
shocked.gif
You don't hear much about those coming loose.
 
That's a shame. I kinda liked the idea of a total composite filter internals. It does seem that they skimp on the adhesive part of this equation ..unlike some of the Euro-based designs which appear to sorta create a compound plastic end cap that is sorta molded/integrated with the media.

Yes, please do post some images of these units after use.
smile.gif
 
I have taken apart three e-cores.They are st5,st3614,st3614.The st5 had 300 miles on it(yes thats right only 300 miles).The reason was afraid after seeing others two_One of them had only 3000 miles,the other less than that because the person had the car only shorty and was cleaning it out.The st5 was not glued at the top.I WILL NOT BUY ANY MORE E-CORES PERIOD.
dunno.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by slalom44:
I posted these pictures on another thread, but since there are doubts about clicker valve filters, I'll post them here:


-


-


The torn media in these two filters were two back-to-back ST-3614 filters I used last year. One filter had 3,180 miles on it, and the other had 3,400 miles. My car started to consume oil at the same time these filters were in service, so I contacted Champion Labs. I sent the filters to a guy named Don Rigg, and I was contacted by a company called Sedgwick Claims Management Services, who reimbursed me for damages. So Lubeowner isn't the only person that has found these failures.

The reason I say that the clicker valve is to blame is because I can't see how it can possibly work. Oil pressure makes the pressure outside the valve greater than inside, meaning that rather than opening up, the clicker valve gets pushed tighter against the holes in the baseplate. I've tried pushing the center, and nothing clicks. You just can't open that valve up with oil pressure.

This means that if the oil pressure exceeds the strength of the media, end caps and center tube as it is assembled, something has to fail. If the engine's pressure relief valve opens up before the filter fails, then you'd never know there was a problem with this filter.
Click to expand...
Just thought i'd bump this particular post.

As it relates to some "questioning" of whether Champ pays their warranty claims. ( or filter companies in general)

This was the post I was referring to that a member of this forum had his claim paid.
 
Wow,

Someone hit the waaay back button. It is funny that the PH253 I cut open today looked exactly like the top picture, big media cave in. A PH2808 I cut open today looked like the bottom pic. Does anyone else see a pattern here...........
 
I also remember another thread of your pics where you claimed they came off new cars..2000 and 2001. Now correct me if i'm wrong but those cars could have, as this is 2005, 48,000 to 60,000 miles taking into consideration 12,000 miles per year.

Which is why some people would like a bit more documentation when you post pics.

I know we won't get it, apparently.

I know you don't want anyone to come help you to document the filters.

My offer still stands..
 
I wonder how much he was paid for "damages". The cost of a filter? The cost of a new engine? I do not know how you would determine the cost of damages for a filter whose media was torn.
 
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