Clean to black in 750 miles..

[toocrazy2yoo]

4-banger Hyundai, 2005, has 20K on the clock. Labor Day weekend, I changed out the Pennzoil Platinum 10W30, with a L24458 Purolator at 5800 miles on the oil. The "old" Pennzoil Platinum wasn't much different, appearance-wise, from brand new. Nice and slippery between the pinkies, no gritty feel to it. The Pennzoil Platinum OCI, done mid-July did get 8 ounces of CD2 SLOB. Only reason I changed it was to send it to the dealer with new oil and an OEM filter. I didn't want them changing to the dealer swill (they're free oil-change happy over there).

The Labor Day oil was 5W20 Pennzoil yellow-bottle dino, SM/GF4, all that. I added no SLOB, VSOT, or any additives, I'm off that kick. The Pennzoil Conventional 5w20 has been nice and clean through 2500 miles. Checking the oil at today's fillup for the first time since I was up in Boston last week, at 3250 miles into this OCI, it's turned pitch black and isn't slippery between the fingers and thumb anymore either (hardly scientific, I realize), but rather, kinda gritty like old oil gets. 500 of the last 750 miles was the run back to Northern Va. from Boston (Mass Pike, NJTP, I-95), and the rest running around here. The PVC is pulling nice and hard, there's no fuel stink to it, it's just gone black in a very short period of time/mileage.

What gives? What tipping point is reached that brand new looking oil at 2500 miles turns pitch black at 3250? Kinda puts the lie to the equivalence of Dino to Syn, at least in the case of Pennzoil Platinum vs. Dino Pennzoil.

This make sense? Or is this what this oil is capable of? Truthfully, the Pennzoil Conventional was $.87/qt at the Home Depot scores this summer, that's the only reason I have it. I'm not knocking it, it just hasn't been my brand before H.D. pricing. I know it's good oil, at least starting out, but my usual Dino brand has been Havoline and it stayed clean on out to 4.5-5K when I usually change dino.

 

[BlazerLT]

Cheap Pennzoil is not the conventional oil I would be using for longer conventional OCI's.

Color nor grittiness are not true measurement but you already know that.

I think you might just have oil that might only have the additive pack for maybe 4000 miles changes only.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

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Cheap Pennzoil is not the conventional oil I would be using for longer conventional OCI's.

Color nor grittiness are not true measurement but you already know that.

I think you might just have oil that might only have the additive pack for maybe 4000 miles changes only.

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[dave1251]

Trips I agree with you. BlazerLT where is the basis for your advise?

 

[BlazerLT]

Check out the VOA for it.

I wouldn't call it the most robust oil on the planet.

 

[dave1251]

Have you seen the used oil analysis on the stuff. Some of the best even on the extended OCI's. VOA's are not the best indicator's. That being said this is some engines pennzoil does not preform on. Hyundai is not one of them.

 

[Hermann]

Assuming you bought lots of .87 Pennzoil at that price, just go ahead and change it every 3000 miles. It wont hurt anything and you will sleep better.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

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That being said this is some engines pennzoil does not preform on. Hyundai is not one of them.

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And that's based on?... Not to argue, just asking.

Is another brand likely to fair any better? I can't remember Havoline getting THIS dark for another 2K, practically..

This have anything to do with 10W30 vs. 5W20? Also, I added SLOB to the Pennzoil Platinum 10W30, but not to the 5w20 conventional. Would this have held it's new-character better with the SLOB-add?

 

[Blue99]

I think you have alot of "Chemistry" going on in that engine with the different oil brands and the additives.

After the hours at full operating temperature, encountered on your trip, the Pennzoil 5W-20 may be functioning as a rinse oil.

And, while some would point the finger at Pennzoil, this same set of conditions may have generated dark, oxidized oil, with any of the other popular 5W-20 oils - Havoline, Exxon Superflo, Motorcraft.

 

[Pablo]

There is a phrase that must be the most common statement here on BiTOG:

"Visual color means very little, do a used oil analysis"

I think this should be a full time banner.

IMHO all it takes is one of the additives, or one fraction of the base oil to darken, even in a non-harmful way, and the oil could LOOK like khrap.

Honestly - pull a sample. Contact Terry Dyson. For a VERY low price of admission - you could have a real answer.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

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I think you have alot of "Chemistry" going on in that engine with the different oil brands and the additives.

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Not destructive chemistry, I hope..

Like I said, I'm off the additive kick, seems a waste, not to mention, some degree of detriment to the cat and whatnot..

Point taken, Pablo. And I'm going to do that at 7500 with my GC wintertime OCI (starting around Thanksgiving) to see where I'm at headed toward 10K. That sounds like a lot, but I'm doing nearly 3.5K, sometimes 4K a month the next few months because of work and whatnot, it just doesn't seem like even a 7500 OCI is reasonable or necessary with Syn.

5W20 Havoline was $1.69 at Fairfax Auto Parts, I'm just gonna change it. By Thanksgiving, it'll have 5K on it anyway. For a lousy $7.00 and a contribution from my filter stash, it makes sense.

Thanks, Yall!

 

[BigAl]

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There is a phrase that must be the most common statement here on BiTOG:

"Visual color means very little, do a used oil analysis"

I think this should be a full time banner.

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OK Pablo, the conventional oil in my Suzuki Forenza (Holden 2.0 Engine) hardly darkens at all during my 3,750 mile factory recommended OCI. It's pretty amazing actually, and has been that way from brand new.

If visual color means very little, do you think my nice still-almost-amber oil might actually be "khrap" at the end of my OCI?

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

How many miles on it, Al?

 

[Pablo]

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If visual color means very little, do you think my nice still-almost-amber oil might actually be "khrap" at the end of my OCI?

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I have no concept what the state of your oil may be in, nor can I presume to guess the wear metals present without a used oil analysis. I was not kidding.

 

[BigAl]

The 'zuki has about 30,000 miles on it.

Thre is no sign of any sludging or varnish, and the cam lobes visible through the oil fill hole aren't even showing any signs of polishing yet.

There may be wear metals present in the oil. I haven't done an oil analysis. If there were wear metals present, what would I do anyway? . . . tear the engine down and look for the source? I doubt it.

On an industrial machine or over-the-road truck with a huge oil sump, oil analysis makes sense to know when to do a change or addive supplement. I can refill my sump for under $10.

With the possible exception of looking for a coolant leak or trying to justify the price of long synthetic OCIs, I can't think of a compelling reason to do a used oil analysis on a car not showing any signs of trouble.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

What'd they give you for a warranty? 36K? 50? 100K?

I'm with you on the UOA, for my car, anyway. With a capacity of 3.6 quarts and oil and filters for darn near free, I might as well change it if there are questions. I just got used to the Syn staying clean for so long, and this was a radical change. Still gonna leave this stuff in till it's got 4K on it, another week or so. Maybe the one that said the Dino OCI was just a rinse of old chemistry is right. One thing I cannot get around is the hassle that IS changing the oil on this car, which is why I'm trying to bridge the wintertime with one Syn OCI.

Waddya gonna dooo?

 

[BigAl]

Warranty 3/36 bumper to bumper, 7/100 powertrain . . . zero deductible, fully transferable. Even conventional oil stays clean. From what I can see, there would be nothing to rinse out of my engine anyway.

Oil changes are a royal pain on my Forenza . . . at least the oil filter part . . . but I'm up to the challenge. Lying on a cold garage floor in the middle of a Wisconsin winter builds character.

Maybe you just didn't get everything drained out last time. I wouldn't worry. There is still a whole lot of warranty left. The worst that could happen is that you get a free engine.

My Suzuki, like the Hyundai, is Korean-built. They're nice cars, especially for the money. They've even got Toyota worried.

 

[Ron AKA]

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I'm with you on the UOA, for my car, anyway. With a capacity of 3.6 quarts and oil and filters for darn near free, I might as well change it if there are questions. I just got used to the Syn staying clean for so long, and this was a radical change. Still gonna leave this stuff in till it's got 4K on it, another week or so. Maybe the one that said the Dino OCI was just a rinse of old chemistry is right. One thing I cannot get around is the hassle that IS changing the oil on this car, which is why I'm trying to bridge the wintertime with one Syn OCI.

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I would suggest that an oil that does not darken significantly during use is a bad sign. This only means one of two things. You have some kind of a magical engine that runs perfectly clean, or the oil is not cleaning the normal deposits that occur in a normal engine.

You have changed from a PP synthetic oil that has poorer natural solvency than the group II yellow Pennzoil now in it. It makes some sense that the group II will clean the engine better, and you will see more darkening.

I currently am running PP in my Mazda3 and have about 3,700 km on the oil. It is looking way too clean for my tastes, and I'm becoming concerned about it. With synthetics the mfg needs to get the additive package right or sludge (varnish) buildup can be a problem. The group III or IV do not automatically assure a clean engine. Pennzoil may not have gotten it right with PP. That in turn may even lead to very good used oil analysis, because the sludge is still in the engine and not in the oil you drain and send a sample to the lab for analysis.

 

[sxg6]

Ahh.. overanalyze overanalyze overanalyze!

I remeber very well respected members of the board saying voa's dont mean squat anymore. Theres a lot more to an oil that shows up on them.

Second.. who gives a @#$# about oil color. Oil in my civic takes its sweet time to get dark, but that doesn't concern me at all because when i took my valve cover off at 97k, everything looked brand spankin new. I trust PP is a fine oil as its add pack. All this talk lately on bitog about oil color and smell is just stupid to me..

 

[Ron AKA]

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Ahh.. overanalyze overanalyze overanalyze!

I remeber very well respected members of the board saying voa's dont mean squat anymore. Theres a lot more to an oil that shows up on them.

Second.. who gives a @#$# about oil color. Oil in my civic takes its sweet time to get dark, but that doesn't concern me at all because when i took my valve cover off at 97k, everything looked brand spankin new. I trust PP is a fine oil as its add pack. All this talk lately on bitog about oil color and smell is just stupid to me..

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I would agree on smell and feel, but not color.