clay bar or rubbing compound?

[mshu7]

Anytime rsylvstr!

While Blackfire isn't the most popular, I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about their products. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, and you're working by hand, there are OTC products worthy of buying.

What's your ultimate goal with your paint? Obviously, I know you want to remove embedded contaminants in your paint. Are you wanting to get rid of light swirls & scratches? Do you want the ultimate protection or do you want a better look when done? Also, do you mind spending some time to achieve the results or do you want a quick solution?

 

[Doc8404]

My truck is white, so the scratches really don't show up that bad (then again, my fiance's 2001 Civic is dark green, and i need to hit that hard) and I don't mind spending time at all...I'll be doing this by hand.

looking for some simplification....from what I'm reading, i should: wash, clay, polish, apply paint protection. no wax needed?

 

[mshu7]

You've got it right (wash - clay - polish - protect aka wax or sealant).

Here's a list of products I've throw together for ya. You should be able to find most of them OTC. If not, the website I'm directing you to is great. It might be easier to just order everything from there instead of driving around trying to find the products. So here's you're options:

Meg's Scratch X $8: This is great for any scratches that don't catch your fingernail. I use it a lot under the door handles. (FYI: If you can catch your fingernail on a scratch, it will probably need to be painted.)
Meg's DC #1 Paint Cleaner $6: This is a chemical paint cleaner that will remove road grime, bird droppings, water etching, etc.
Meg's DC #2 Paint Polish $6: This polish uses mild diminishing abrasives to remove light scratches/swirls and also restores the paint to a glossy finish.
Meg's NXT Tech Wax $15: Meg's says this is their most longest lasting wax. However, it's more of a sealant (longer lasting than carnauba wax) than a wax since it uses synthetic polymers. It also has some light cleaners to help reduce fine scratches & swirls. This will give the paint a candy-shell look. NXT is a sheeting "wax", so if you use this by itself, you'll notice water doesn't bead up, rather sheets off the paint.
Meg's Professional Line #26 High Tech Yellow Wax $12: This is a great wax for the money. It's super easy to apply and remove. This will give you the warm glow of a carnauba wax and deepen the color of your paint. This is a beading wax. If you use this by itself or as a topper to NXT, water will bead on the paint.

Other products:
Meg's Hi-Tech Applicators (4-pack) $4
Meg's Surpreme Shine Microfiber Towel (3-pack) $7

A few more notes:
I listed the NXT & #26 waxes because a lot of people like to use them in combination of one another. The reason they do this is for the ultimate protection (sealants) & look (carnauba wax). Since NXT is more like a sealant, apply it first, wait for it to haze, and then buff. If you want to apply a 2nd coat or apply #26, wait at least 12 hrs. (preferably 24) to allow for optimal cure time. If you want to apply #26, apply the same way, however there is no cure time. You can apply #26 back to back if desired. One thing to remember is that if you're going to use NXT & #26, apply NXT first because it has cleaners in it. Otherwise, you would be removing the #26 if you apply NXT over it.

Here's the website where I order my Meg's stuff from:
http://autodetailingsolutions.com/

You can find all the products I've listed on there. The DC products are under "A-line". The other stuff is pretty self explanatory as far as where to find it. With the stuff I've listed, you'd be looking at about $60 plus shipping. The reason why I suggest Meg's is because the products are easy to use, good quality, & priced very competitively.

If you have any more Q's, let me know.

 

[bretfraz]

NXT used to bead water. Did Meguiar's change the formula to sheet water?

I'd love to know what the polymer sealant component of NXT is. The stuff doesn't last too long although it does look good on black. Personally I don't think there's a drop of "polymer sealant" in NXT. Wouldn't be surprised if it's loaded with silicone oil, though.

Meguiar's Deep Crystal #2 is primarily a glaze, used to fill and hide paint defects, not remove them. A sealant won't bond to a glaze, making one or the other product a wasted effort.

Almost all this stuff is available at Pep Boys and other well-stocked auto parts stores.

 

[mshu7]

I've never heard of NXT being a beading wax. Mike Phillips, formerly of Meguiar's has always stated that it's a sheeting wax. This is one of the reasons people say it doesn't last very long. They think that if the water doesn't beed, the wax isn't protecting. The only downside to NXT is it does tend to loose the "just waxed" look quickly. However, the protection last for a while. He's also talked about the synthetics of NXT. If you want more info, check out MeguiarsOnline.com message board. There's plenty of info on it there.

As far as DC #2 is concerned, all of Meg's products work together. Again, Mike Phillips has said that NXT is formulated to work in conjunction of their consumer line of products. And again, DC #2 contains mild abrasives so it actually can help to remove light swirls. Typically, you're right about sealants inability to bond to glazes, but it's not the case with Meg's NXT when used with other Meg's products.

Again, if you want more info check out MeguiarsOnline.com or even Mike's new gig, ShowCarGarage.com.

 

[bretfraz]

Yes, I am very familiar with Megs Online, SCG and it's predecessor, Art Of Polishing Paint. I met Mike several years ago and saw NXT in action months before it was introduced. I used my first Meguiars product some 25 years ago and have a good bit of their stuff in my inventory.

As long as I've been aware of the stuff, NXT has beaded water. If it's now supposed to sheet water, I guess either Meguiars changed the formula or they changed their story of how the product is supposed to perform. Would not be the first time for either example from Meguiars.

When Gold Class first came out, it was supposed to bead water. Then Megs told everyone it beads initially, then sheets. Then they changed their tune to that GC is only supposed to bead water. I don't know where it stands now with GC, not that it matters because it stains trim and has durability measured in weeks.

I reviewed the MSDS for DC#2 and the only abrasive noted was diatomaceus earth, which is prolly used more to give the oils something to "bite" into, not as a paint correction abrasive. Actually, the MSDS's of this product and their #7 glaze are pretty close, hardly a diff between them.

Moving forward I would recommend everyone do their own product research and comparative analysis to determine what works best for their needs. While the product mfr's can be a great source of information, they have a powerful vested interest in the promotion of their products and brand (imagine that...) I learned a long time ago that a little critical thinking goes a long way in the car care products world. It's a good thing.

Best regards.

 

[Doc8404]

well, I bought a polisher last night, so it looks like I won't be doing it by hand!

I'll experiment with her Civic first LOL

 

[mshu7]

What polisher did you get?

 

[Doc8404]

dare I say....
I got something from Chicago Pneumatics at Harbor Freight...thus the reason i will experiment on her car first.

 

[fitzz47]

Quote:

---

Thanks Shu....

is this stuff any good?
better than what i can buy at the local stores?
http://www.properautocare.com/blaccomkit.html

---

the site is a gold mine of information,read some how to's,you'll learn a lot,then you can make up your mine,I use the Menzerna brand stuff they sell.

 

[Doc8404]

http://www.properautocare.com/mecarcakit.html

the site said to try that stuff after i clay it.

 

[mshu7]

Quote:

---

dare I say....
I got something from Chicago Pneumatics at Harbor Freight...thus the reason i will experiment on her car first.

---

I just looked on HF and I'm guessing you got the $40 one? For applying waxes and stuff, that'll be fine, but for any kind of paint correction (removing light swirls, scratches, etc.) you'll need something better. If you're wanting to do any sort of paint correction, the best/most popular "buffer" is the Porter Cable 7424: http://autogeek.net/poca746varap.html

The PC 7424 is a dual action random orbital buffer so it will not cause any damage to paint like a rotary buffer might do if it was in the wrong hands. ROB's not only spin but also "jiggle" so the amount of heat created with the PC is much less than a rotary.

For me, the PC has by far been the best money I've spent when it comes to detailing. You just can't imagine how much easier/faster you can work versus working by hand.

Anyway, there's my $.02 for ya. I know the PC is definitely a step up in price, but it's well worth it if you're wanting to do more than apply waxes.

Let me know if you have any more Q's.

 

[Doc8404]

that looks great...from what i'm reading, if I'm careful, the circular will remove scratches...

http://www.autogeek.net/buffer-polisher.html

 

[Doc8404]

well, I got:

Clay
Scratch X
#7
NXT

i think that should do it....going to experiment with the Civic first....wish me luck. might be a few weeks though.
plan on washing with Dawn to remove anything like wax, etc.

I am thinking about doing it by hand...not worried about the time/elbow grease factor...the POS polisher I bought (on money restriction by the little woman) isn't that great.
BTW, what speed should i be using this at?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92623

 

[bretfraz]

I suggest keeping speeds under 1500rpm, more like 1000-1200 for starters. Work slowly and watch your edges carefully. Never let the machine sit on one spot, keep it moving at all times.

What pads are you using? Did it come with a velcro backing plate?

 

[Doc8404]

I'm doing the scratch X by hand, so for the rest, i'm using the terry cloths....
I think it came with velcro...

 

[Doc8404]

here is what I bought...

http://www.meguiars.com/?auto-paint-cleaners/ScratchX

http://www.meguiars.com/?auto-detailing-clay/Smooth-Surface-Clay-Kit

http://www.meguiars.com/?pro-pure-polishes/Show-Car-Glaze

http://www.meguiars.com/?paste-car-waxes/NXT-Generation-Tech-Wax-Paste

from what i'm reading, the Scratch X and #7 should be applied by hand.

 

[Doc8404]

would you recommend using #83 and then wax (since it's a polish too)?

or
paint cleaner and then a seperate polish?

 

[mshu7]

Just want to correct something in regards to what I posted earlier...

Meg's DC #2 Paint Polish does NOT contain mild abrasives. It is a pure polish (think Meg's #7 Show Car Glaze).


rsylvstr,
#83 can be tricky to work with. If you're going to use a polish like that, use #80. It's more user friendly and less abrasive. #80 will finish down and prepare the paint for whatever wax you decide to use.