CK-4 Flat tappets and unseen additives

[TexasPlumber]

these new rated oils still meet alot of requirements for flat tappet engines. maybe they arent as stout as before or maybe they are better? But if they do meet some flat tappet engine requirements should we feel comfortable running them in older stock flat tappet engines or small engines???

 

[kschachn]

these new rated oils still meet alot of requirements for flat tappet engines. maybe they arent as stout as before or maybe they are better? But if they do meet some flat tappet engine requirements should we feel comfortable running them in older stock flat tappet engines or small engines???

What exactly are the “flat tappet engine requirements” an oil needs to meet?

 

[TexasPlumber]

What exactly are the “flat tappet engine requirements” an oil needs to meet?

idk. indont do the testing but im referring to the list of builder specs that are on the bottles from manufacturers that have alot of flat tappet engines.

surely if its good enough for a detroit or cummings or whatever its good enough for a bone stock small block with stock valve springs or a lawn mower? right?

cause the higher zddp oils are getting fewer by the day it seems. im hoping these new additives we dont see work.

 

[TexasPlumber]

What exactly are the “flat tappet engine requirements” an oil needs to meet?

do you like have anything to add or are you just following me around writing snide comments?

 

[bullwinkle]

Depends on whether the flat tappet engine has a high lift cam or not-standard lift should be OK (although I wiped a few GM lobes back in the day with higher ZDDP oil), you can always add zinc additive if you're afraid the HDEO isn't stout enough. As always, used oil analysis is your friend!

 

[Rand]

What flat tappen engines? do you have a specific example or is this an overly-generalized question that has no good answer.

 

[Rand]

do you like have anything to add or are you just following me around writing snide comments?

Snide comments like yours?
Let me add my own.
"Are you a new member or a retread coming back after being banned?"

 

[kschachn]

do you like have anything to add or are you just following me around writing snide comments?

So asking you what you mean (using your own words) is snide but you posting “razors edge sounds like a prepper” to another member isn’t snide?

 

[xgmad]

Well, if your engine uses flat tappet cams, which are more friction intensive than your modern valve train's low friction cam lobes, A higher ZDDP content is good, but too much can imbalance the TBN of the oil I believe, makes it somewhat lower. You might consider using ZDDP additives incase the ppm of zinc is lower, but add in moderation. Phosphor is also another anti wear additive used to enhance the protection of these flat tappet cams.

I don't believe that these modern CK-4 oils should be bad to run, they may have taken into consideration of this issue.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Your question as written has no clear answer, I think is what some of these folks are trying to get at. I'm still trying to make sense of it.

IME, most stock-ish flat tappet engines should perform just fine on modern CK-4 oils. Limits on phosphorous have been around a good while, and tons of people have been driving older vehicles with flat tappets for years and years on SM, SN, et al.

 

[ofelas]

TX Plumber - I use a synthetic CK4 oil in a couple older flat tappet engines.

The ZDDP content in the DZF & DME are very similar to the CI4+ AME.

Hope that helps.

METALS AME DZF DME
Boron (ppm) 0 99 99
Sodium (ppm) 0 0 0
Magnesium (ppm)0 714 714
Calcium (ppm) 3614 1281 1281
Phosphorus (ppm) 1258 1206 1206
Zinc (ppm) 1384 1314 1314

 

[tundraotto]

I wanted to use my stash of Delvac Super 15W-40 on my Toyota 22RE flat tappet engine with upgraded valve springs....but since its also SN rated - it has even lower ZDDP than some other CK-4 rated HDEOs like Rotella...
decided against it and Rotella T5 15W-40, or Delvac 15W-40 Extreme is going in it.

 

[RooflessVW]

ZDDP is only one answer to the question.

You'll be fine with any modern oil of the correct grade. Declining ZDDP levels do not mean declining wear protection.

 

[tundraotto]

If ZDDP is only one answer to flat-tappet wear....what are the others?

Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CK-4/SN
Phosphorus
752
Zinc
944
Molybdenum
42
Titanium
Boron
63

Mobil Delvac 1300 Super SAE 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil | The Petroleum Quality Institute of America

pqia.org

Rotella T5 15W-40 CK-4
Phosphorus
1,086
Zinc
1,267
Molybdenum
65
Titanium
Boron
130

Shell Rotella T5 Synthetic Blend SAE 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil | The Petroleum Quality Institute of America

pqia.org

Delo 15W-40 CK-4/SN
Phosphorus
711
Zinc
807
Molybdenum
131
Titanium
Boron
370

Chevron Delo 400 SDE SAE 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil | The Petroleum Quality Institute of America

pqia.org

 

[Kuato]

TX Plumber - I use a synthetic CK4 oil in a couple older flat tappet engines.

The ZDDP content in the DZF & DME are very similar to the CI4+ AME.

Hope that helps.

Yes; I would think that a diesel oil would be very good in gas flat tappet applications as well.

Hmmmm looks like OP's profile is no longer available. Another victim.

 

[RooflessVW]

If ZDDP is only one answer to flat-tappet wear....what are the others?

Moly, anantinomy, esters, polymer esters.

 

[OVERKILL]

these new rated oils still meet alot of requirements for flat tappet engines. maybe they arent as stout as before or maybe they are better? But if they do meet some flat tappet engine requirements should we feel comfortable running them in older stock flat tappet engines or small engines???

A flat tappet engine with a stock valvetrain typically does not have lofty anti-wear requirements or require elevated levels of ZDDP. Sure, if you'e shoved a Lunatti Voodoo in there and are running significantly higher spring pressures elevated levels may be beneficial but you stated stock, so this really isn't something to worry about.

The HDEO's in question pass the requisite testing to meet the requirements for the various approvals they carry. Since these are predominantly diesel-oriented there may not be a nice clean correlation with gasser applications, but since many are dual-use designed for mixed-fleet one must assume that they are suitably formulated to work well in gasser applications as well, even lacking a list of petrol engine approvals.