Civic Hybrid- M1-0W-30 5100 miles on oil

[Fred Bear]

I just got back the first lab report on oil in my Civic Hybrid. I have a few questions,
Gas was found at 1.5%. Could this be due to the eninge shuting down all the time? Those who have a Hybrid understand what I am talking about. When you come to a stop the gasoline engine turns off untill you release the brake. I would have thought fuel management to take care of this.
The car only has 10000 miles on it. This was the second oil change.
Iron-30
Moly-118
Boran-121
Silicon-21
Calcium-2602

These were the only numbers higher than universal averages.
I did use M1 0W-30 as I live in Texas and I was not sure about the 0W-20 Honda calls for. I now use M1-0W-20 as per spec.

 

[mph]

How many miles were on this oil?

It's not surprising the Fe is still a little high from break-in wear. The Silicon looks pretty high, but maybe it's from silicone-based sealants used during assembly. Your idea about the fuel contamination is interesting, but I don't know enough to comment.

 

[Fred Bear]

The oil had 5100 miles on it. While the gasoline in the sample was high, it was still less than the 2% standard. I have never had gas in oil in my Accord and Ford Truck

 

[got boost?]

does your engine shutoff if the a/c or heat is on? is it only when the vent is turned of or what?

 

[joee12]

Fred Bear, can you post the other numbers? If you would like, email them to me and I will edit your original post. Seeing all of the numbers gives us a better picture of what is going on witgh your engine/oil. -Joe

 

[Jay]

I'd like to see the whole report also. Numbers higher than universal averages aren't that useful.

I'm really interested in seeing how the hybrids hold up. Which causes more wear-- idling, or stopping the engine and restarting? We may have an answer when these hybrid reports start coming in.

 

[Fred Bear]

Alum-9
Chromium-1
Iron-30
Cooper-7
Lead-1
Tin-1
Moly-118
Nickel-1
Manganese-1
Silver-0
Titanium-0
Potassium-0
Boran-121
Silicon-21
Sodium-9
Calcium-2602
Magnesium-14
Phosphorus-796
Zinc-923
Barium-1
SUS Viscosity@210F 59.1
Flashpoint-330F
Fuel 1.5%
Insolubles .8%

They said the high Alum, Iron and Sicicon were due to wear in and they should drop in the next sample.

 

[Fred Bear]

got boost, the HVAC does shut off, if the outside temp is below 40 it stays on. However in the summer, it will turn the AC off, so I turn the engine shut down "feature" off.

 

[Jay]

Thanks Fred. The wear metals all look OK but I worry about the fuel contamination and very high insolubles. I would have the dealer check the car out. Do you get any "check engine" warnings from the ECU? How's your gas mileage?

 

[Fred Bear]

City-46
Highway-44
The electric assist works more in town.
I am very pleased with this car. However I will never recoup the added cost of the hybrid over a standard civic, even with a 2000 dollar federal tax credit for buying one.

 

[mdv]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fred Bear:
I have a few questions,
Gas was found at 1.5%. Could this be due to the eninge shuting down all the time? Those who have a Hybrid understand what I am talking about. When you come to a stop the gasoline engine turns off untill you release the brake. I would have thought fuel management to take care of this.

---

Not sure about the Honda, buy the Toyota Hybrid runs the engine regardless of whether the car is moving or not until the engine is warmed up. After the engine is warm it will shut down depending on conditions. With a warm engine, you shouldn't be getting that much fuel dilution. I wouldn't think the frequent starting would contribute that much to it. It's going to be interesting to see as more Hybrid reports trickle in.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jay:
Thanks Fred. The wear metals all look OK but I worry about the fuel contamination and very high insolubles. I would have the dealer check the car out.

---

I agree here.

 

[manualman]

Hybrid is interesting technology, but I emphatically agree that you will never get your investment back. Right about the time you might start getting close to breaking even you'll need to sink many thousands into a new battery pack (hopefully past 100,000 miles). Thats assuming the car has average reapir and maintenance costs, which is a mighty big assumption, considering the complexity of these things.

I am also suspicious of the environmental benefits given the amounts of toxic heavy metals that most batteries require. Save some gas, produce tons more heavy metals mining waste. Better for the environment? Hmm... not sure about that.

For those looking for super mileage, the VW TDI diesel is much more mature and cost effective technology.

 

[farfel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by manualman:
I am also suspicious of the environmental benefits given the amounts of toxic heavy metals that most batteries require.

---

The NiMH batteries used by the hybrids don't use toxic metals. In fact, the EPA allows NiMHs to be tossed into the landfill.


I don't have a Civic, but I have an Insight that works on the exact same design. I have a lifetime average of 90 miles per gallon which is a fuel savings of ~$5500 over 200,000 miles vs. a lightweight 40 mpg car.


I have my AC set to "econo" mode which turns off both the car & AC when stopped. This is no big deal, because the coils stay cool even when stopped at a red light.

 

[highmiler]

farfel:

Do you only drive downhill? How do you obtain 90 MPG?

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Do you only drive downhill? How do you obtain 90 MPG?

---

Oh ...didn't he tell you that he installed the "pedal assist" optional feature? That's good for at least 20-30 mpg over the EPA numbers in the urban cycle test.

It's a $2000 "aerobic fitness" option.


Gosh, I have to educate everyone around here.

[ November 04, 2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[farfel]

quote:

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Originally posted by highmiler:
farfel: Do you only drive downhill? How do you obtain 90 MPG?

---

-If you drive 55 on a nice flat interstate, the Honda Insight will easily get 90 mpg.
-If you drive 45, it will get 100 mpg (albeit more challenging).
-Once while driving *with* the wind from home to work, I got 120 mpg!

I routinely get 100 mpg driving to work, but average 90 overall. It's just a matter of watching the gauges and controling the lean-burn mode. Kinda like playing a video game.

.


If you think that's amazing, VW-Germany has a 2-seat diesel prototype that gets 240 mpg.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

With insolubles .8 I would be looking for a better oil filter. I think these cars will be rough on oil and filters. Of course this analysis is with the engine still breaking in but we have never seen insolubles this high.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by farfel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by highmiler:
farfel: Do you only drive downhill? How do you obtain 90 MPG?

---

-If you drive 55 on a nice flat interstate, the Honda Insight will easily get 90 mpg.
-If you drive 45, it will get 100 mpg (albeit more challenging).
-Once while driving *with* the wind from home to work, I got 120 mpg!

I routinely get 100 mpg driving to work, but average 90 overall. It's just a matter of watching the gauges and controling the lean-burn mode. Kinda like playing a video game.

---

I can get 99 MPG with my Corvette as well, when I switch to the instant MPG display and coast. But the overall average is much lower (I get 21 MPG average)

So you're saying you have an average of over 90 MPG over the entire time you've owned it? Somehow I doubt that. I smell BS here.

 

[olympic]

It's pretty easy to get 90 MPG when your car is powered by mainly by electricity. If I understand these cars correctly, the gas engine only starts up during hard acceleration, high speed, or when the batteries go dead. So the fuel burned per mile is very low, but the power still has to come from somewhere, namely the batteries.

So here's the $60k question: What will take you further....$5 worth of gas or $5 worth of electricity? Not many people heat their house with electricity because it's way more expensive than diesel or natural gas. I tend to believe that powering a car with electricity would be the same.

And just FYI, the University of Saskatchewan holds the world record for fuel mileage at 5691 MPG!!

Set way back in 1986 no less. I walked by the display every day when I was an engineering student there. It was a bullet shaped "car" that held 1 passenger in a prone position. The engine was an 70cc OHC Honda motorcycle engine. Think about that for a second. That's 2 trips across the country on 1 gallon of gas!