It appears that chlorinated paraffins have a bad reputation when used as a oil additive. I just finished looking at 12 generator sets that were heavily dosed with an additive that contained chlorinated paraffins. These were all high time gen sets. I was told to document all the damage done to the main, rod and cam bearings. There was none. The bearings were all in good shape and my recommendation was to return them back to service. Has anyone used these products and had actual damage to their engine?
Chlorinated paraffins
- Thread starter OneEyeJack
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What additive would that have been?
how long was it exposed to Chlorinated paraffins before you inspected it?
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Has anyone used these products and had actual damage to their engine?
what products specifically? From another thread, https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/chlorinated-paraffins.145003/ it appears there are quite a few additives that contain that particular chemical.....
But personally don't have any experience with either. The only engine additive I've ever used was MMO and Seafoam; obvsiously not together, in fact not even within the same vehicles....and only for "normal" OCIs (<=3k miles).
Has anyone used these products and had actual damage to their engine?
what products specifically? From another thread, https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/chlorinated-paraffins.145003/ it appears there are quite a few additives that contain that particular chemical.....
But personally don't have any experience with either. The only engine additive I've ever used was MMO and Seafoam; obvsiously not together, in fact not even within the same vehicles....and only for "normal" OCIs (<=3k miles).
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I was told to document all the damage done to the main, rod and cam bearings. There was none.
Who told you to document? Why did they suspect damage to the main, rod and cam bearings? Was there a performance problem or unusual noises?
I was told to document all the damage done to the main, rod and cam bearings. There was none.
Who told you to document? Why did they suspect damage to the main, rod and cam bearings? Was there a performance problem or unusual noises?
The tear down was prompted by someone in management that read something about CP's being harmful. The product was from a company in Asia. I looked at the bottle but could not make heads nor tails out of the writing. The product was used for between 1k hours and 1.5k hours in these gen sets. The dose was at recommended levels or just a bit more. Lab analysis confirmed that the product was just like others on the market, no better or worse. No secret ingredients were found. There was absolutely no damage to the maim bearings, nothing. I'm wondering if CP's were ever the bad guys that I hear about every now and then? I've talked to those that know they are bad but have never actually experienced any problems themselves.
Also keep in mind many products get taken away because of people damage not engine damage. Lots of 49 state legal additives, paint, shoelaces, you name it.
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The tear down was prompted by someone in management that read something about CP's being harmful.
Without a UOA? What a moron.
CP can cause corrosion due to the chlorine mixing with H from water and you get HCl. Modern inhibitors are much better than they were decades ago (where CP got their bad rep) so I think much is overblown on modern formulations (IF QC is good on the final product).
I've used a high content CP oil on guns for years with no issues. So long as there is no corrosion, CP will help to prevent wear and reduce friction, especially on steel parts.
The tear down was prompted by someone in management that read something about CP's being harmful.
Without a UOA? What a moron.
CP can cause corrosion due to the chlorine mixing with H from water and you get HCl. Modern inhibitors are much better than they were decades ago (where CP got their bad rep) so I think much is overblown on modern formulations (IF QC is good on the final product).
I've used a high content CP oil on guns for years with no issues. So long as there is no corrosion, CP will help to prevent wear and reduce friction, especially on steel parts.
As long as TBN doesn't drop, as long as h2o accumulation is nil, and as long as dosage isn't excessive, I don't see any issues with chlorinated oils.
Problem is, too many take short drips, extend OCI's, run low on oil..... which will lead to problems that can be exaggerated by some additives.
The biggest issue with any additive is the consumer that doesn't understand what directions, dipsticks, or odometers are.
Problem is, too many take short drips, extend OCI's, run low on oil..... which will lead to problems that can be exaggerated by some additives.
The biggest issue with any additive is the consumer that doesn't understand what directions, dipsticks, or odometers are.
Short chain chlorinated parafins are considered toxic by the EPA. However, long chain chlorinated paraffins are not considered toxic and are used in some metalworking fluids as an extreme pressure agent, including water soluble coolants. Some metalworking fluid manufacturers had to reformulate their fluid due to them having used short chain chlorinated paraffins, since it blends quicker and easier than the long chain version.
I know little to nothing about oil additives and I am not a chemist, so I cannot say whether it is beneficial for a motor oil additive to contain it. However, there is a big difference between a metalworking fluid that a machine operator will be in contact with all day, compared to an additive that one would normally be in brief contact with, if at all.
I know little to nothing about oil additives and I am not a chemist, so I cannot say whether it is beneficial for a motor oil additive to contain it. However, there is a big difference between a metalworking fluid that a machine operator will be in contact with all day, compared to an additive that one would normally be in brief contact with, if at all.
It appears that CP's were greatly effected by publicity that may have been driven by competitors in the market place. Many products succeed or fail for reasons other than the product itself.
MolaKule
Staff member
Many gear lubes used to have CP's in them until an SAE paper showed that as little as 50ppm of CP could cause corrosion and pitting in gears and bearings.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gear-tribology-and-lubrication-part-ii.57858/
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The bearings were all in good shape and my recommendation was to return them back to service. Has anyone used these products and had actual damage to their engine?
Did you put these parts under a microscope to see if any pitting or corrosion was present?
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gear-tribology-and-lubrication-part-ii.57858/
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The bearings were all in good shape and my recommendation was to return them back to service. Has anyone used these products and had actual damage to their engine?
Did you put these parts under a microscope to see if any pitting or corrosion was present?
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MolaKule
Staff member
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The product was from a company in Asia.
There is a lot of poorly formulated additive junk coming out of Asia, the exception being South Korea.
Most likely, someone in your company got a discount for trying some untested additive,
I would never add any aftermarket or OTC additive to an engine unless I knew it's composition and long-term effects.
The product was from a company in Asia.
There is a lot of poorly formulated additive junk coming out of Asia, the exception being South Korea.
Most likely, someone in your company got a discount for trying some untested additive,
I would never add any aftermarket or OTC additive to an engine unless I knew it's composition and long-term effects.
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The additive was from S.Korea.
Sample bearings were examined by the manufacturer of the bearings and judged good for continued service with no corrosion found. These examinations help to improve the system.
The selection of this additive was from the Japanese manufacturer of the engines.
I'm not aware of any "deals" for the purchase of the additive.
I was told the selection of this additive was because these gen sets sometimes get really stressed because they are part of an emergency system. Sometimes these sets are kept running even in the presence of potential long term damage because of safety considerations for personal. These gen sets work in a three layer backup system because of really cold weather. Temps have dropped 50F or more in hours as a storm blows in.
It appears that in the right place CP's are useful.
Sample bearings were examined by the manufacturer of the bearings and judged good for continued service with no corrosion found. These examinations help to improve the system.
The selection of this additive was from the Japanese manufacturer of the engines.
I'm not aware of any "deals" for the purchase of the additive.
I was told the selection of this additive was because these gen sets sometimes get really stressed because they are part of an emergency system. Sometimes these sets are kept running even in the presence of potential long term damage because of safety considerations for personal. These gen sets work in a three layer backup system because of really cold weather. Temps have dropped 50F or more in hours as a storm blows in.
It appears that in the right place CP's are useful.
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