Chinese EV models

fdcg27 said:
I suspect that those who live on the island as well as our own government might take exception with what you've espoused in this post.
Unlike Hong Kong, which was on an expiring lease to the UK, Taiwan exists outside of the scope of the mainland and has no intention of going down without a fight. It would also not be an easy fight. Just look at the water an invading force from the mainland would have to cross.
China's neighbors are also not happy with China's current expansionist policies in the region.
Finally, with all the talk of Chinese investment worldwide, imagine the sequestrations that China and its enterprises would suffer should they choose to launch an armed attack on Taiwan. Worldwide sanctions would be a certainty, with the added benefit to developing nations of allowing them to repudiate their debt to China and take back any property ceded to Chinese enterprises.
Incidentally, if you ask a Taiwanese what they call their country, they'll say without hesitation "China".
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Well said, it’s a tough call. I don’t think I suggested armed invasion by the mainland. I was thinking very slow and steady pressure on the island and world stage as it’s doesn’t seem any country is denying that history shows it part of Chinese territory.

At the same time don’t think anyone on the world stage says Taiwan is not part of Chinese territory and why no nation other than a very few tiny countries recognizes Taiwan as a country.
It was always part of Chinese territory I think? But when the rebels broke away from the mainland and moved to the island China was powerless or undetermined to do anything. After all they went to the island to regroup and return one day to take over the mainland.

That was then, I find the subject interesting and no way do I know everything as I am learning and will read more when time.

All I do know is everyone is gutless to acknowledge them as a country and Taiwan itself pulled out of the UN in 1971.
So if this was so clear cut none of these two things would exist.
 
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Dave Hess said:
How soon will Chinese EV be sold in the USA and be dumped here ?
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I believe the first ones are arriving and you can place a deposit. If not now you will by summer and not only that get $7,500 credit but only if you lease, yet the dealer can then workout the buyout at the same time.

I don’t believe anything regarding tariffs if the car gets out of the bag. Americans will be up in arms forced to pay more for an EV they can’t afford yet being pushed into it with the assault on gasoline. Not all Americans can afford decent size EVs at the insane prices they currently cost. The Chinese Volvo solves that problem.
Why assault the consumer this case? If we don’t like it, stop interfering in the gasoline market and let the market determine which vehicle Americans buy.

I would think tariffs will not end up well for American companies in China but could be wrong as China has its own issues right now. I don’t think to describe it as dumping is correct. They will be working with a 15 to 20% profit margin as described in the link below.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ap-chinese-ev-us-shores-trade-war-2024-04-24/

….
 
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A 100% tariff on Chinese made EVs will pretty well destroy their chances in the US.
We may be awakening to the fact that China has a broad-based set of policies to achieve a known goal and industrial policy is only one aspect of that.
 
fdcg27 said:
A 100% tariff on Chinese made EVs will pretty well destroy their chances in the US.
We may be awakening to the fact that China has a broad-based set of policies to achieve a known goal and industrial policy is only one aspect of that.
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And will decimate Tesla (and possibly other US companies) in China which is Tesla’s (mostly) only source of profits.
After all China has almost 500% more population than the US so who would get hurt more, US companies or Chinese companies?
Just talking because this tariff stuff is just talk out of Washington and nothing more in an election year no less
 
alarmguy said:
Well said, it’s a tough call. I don’t think I suggested armed invasion by the mainland. I was thinking very slow and steady pressure on the island and world stage as it’s doesn’t seem any country is denying that history shows it part of Chinese territory.

At the same time don’t think anyone on the world stage says Taiwan is not part of Chinese territory and why no nation other than a very few tiny countries recognizes Taiwan as a country.
It was always part of Chinese territory I think? But when the rebels broke away from the mainland and moved to the island China was powerless or undetermined to do anything. After all they went to the island to regroup and return one day to take over the mainland.

That was then, I find the subject interesting and no way do I know everything as I am learning and will read more when time.

All I do know is everyone is gutless to acknowledge them as a country and Taiwan itself pulled out of the UN in 1971.
So if this was so clear cut none of these two things would exist.
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Okay. Wait.

The Taiwanese were not the rebels. They were the existing and internationally recognized government which fled to Taiwan in 1949.

The only reason why countries have not recognized Taiwan as a country on the international stage is because they either need access to China's economy, aid (ex, Belt and Road Initiative), or China's position on UN Security Council.
 
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fdcg27 said:
...and allowing free export of Chinese EVs to this country would also decimate Tesla.
Pick you poison.
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Good point. Agree but there are 1.4 billion Chinese to 350 million Americans. Tesla China operations bring in the profits for companies looking for growth.

BTW I’m not taking sides just discussing on something that hasn’t even happened yet and most likely never will.

China focuses on their own people and the EU right now. But being China manufactures Volvo here in the USA presents a sticky problem. Are we to also start to discourage companies from manufacturing in the USA? No

We can’t do everything and anything we want as we also answer to the WTO but even so I don’t think even if tariffs were placed it would affect Volvo since they produce cars here in SC
 
GoGrrreen said:
Does anyone have any experience with electric vehicles manufactured by the Chinese? Geely, BYD, Changan etc? If so, what would you pinpoint as the main point of difference? In comparison to standard offerings in the West.
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No experience but the company is very experienced in the automobile world and tons of resources as I only learned recently because of this thread that they own Volvo too. Might be worth it to hold out and see what the new Chinese produced Volvo EV will bring this summer of 2024 to our shores.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geely
 
I have test ride some domestic Chinese vehicles.
AION
20211027104854463.jpg

BYD QING Plus
images

Roewe ei6 PHEV
20200612034422-37sVnuqW.jpg

I dislike them all. NVH is worse than my Hyundai. Especially for the PHEV, I never felt so much vibration that resonate with my gut. Only the rear leg room seems decent.
 
Large tariffs on Chinese products aren't anything new, the EU has been doing it for ages to protect industry in places like Germany.

What's truly amazing is the West's eagerness to be gaslighted by this "wind and solar are the cheapest" trope, while these products are manufactured in China using mostly mine-to-mouth coal (in some cases hydro).

The righteous export of our emissions to China where they are "out of sight, out of mind", while strangling ourselves in environmental regulations and then complaining about the industrial exodus is a bizarre paradox, given that most people seem to understand that we live in a fish bowl. Imagine holding China to the same standards we hold ourselves? But that would make too much sense... 🤷‍♂️

The other disconnect seems to be on project TIC. Influencers using the cost of items in China to misleadingly cheerlead them in the west, like batteries for example. It's like me claiming nothing is cheaper than a pair of EC6's because China built two in 4 years for $2.88bn.
 
Torrid said:
All of them look like copies of something. Even if the tech is good, they phoned in the styling and while that might be fine for the average buyer, I'd like a bit of style.
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I agree on the styling and that is why many prefer the Euro look (VW BMW)
But average rules, gosh in our digital age all the ICE makers take a photo of the most popular selling cars and duplicate the looks and size and produce similar under their name.
Small SUVs now gosh, there are no standouts anymore that I can think of off the top of my head, they all look the same, though performance and interiors will not.

They ARE all copies, take photos of a vehicle that your competition is killing it with , replicate on a super computer, add your own touches and have your company produce it.
Nothing against it, nothing against the Model 3 either. But even that is looking kind of generic. Thats ok because I buy what I like too.
But when I really admire a car it typically of German heritage which I dont own *LOL*

Same with the paint on cars now, drives me nuts, seems like long term, it's the durability of water color. But the BMWs paint still I admire that oil based thickness feel.
I say BMW because that is all I know since my son has a new one every year and his other car is around a 2016 X5, I just admire the finish of them to old school craftsmanship. Compared to my wife's Mazda and my Chevy Traverse which just seems cheap.
 
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alarmguy said:
And will decimate Tesla (and possibly other US companies) in China which is Tesla’s (mostly) only source of profits.
After all China has almost 500% more population than the US so who would get hurt more, US companies or Chinese companies?
Just talking because this tariff stuff is just talk out of Washington and nothing more in an election year no less
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Not really, it is leveling playing field.
1. Forever China had very strict FDI laws. Companies who wanted to invest in China had to start holding company there, where 51% is actually owned by Chinese company (read: CCP).
2. We tolerated their intellectual theft bcs. access to their market.
3. We tolerated FDI laws bcs. access to market.

China is becoming developed economy, they want to export now their own stuff, so we play their game. Problem for them is that they are making absolute junk. Add to that that they don’t innovate nearly as much as we do (kind of consequence of ANY totalitarian regime) and they will either have to further open their market (not anticipated under Xi) or just go further into restrictions (possible). But this is how it is working so far:
IMG_3088.webp

China without FDI is crippled economically.
 
edyvw said:
Not really, it is leveling playing field.
1. Forever China had very strict FDI laws. Companies who wanted to invest in China had to start holding company there, where 51% is actually owned by Chinese company (read: CCP).
2. We tolerated their intellectual theft bcs. access to their market.
3. We tolerated FDI laws bcs. access to market.

China is becoming developed economy, they want to export now their own stuff, so we play their game. Problem for them is that they are making absolute junk. Add to that that they don’t innovate nearly as much as we do (kind of consequence of ANY totalitarian regime) and they will either have to further open their market (not anticipated under Xi) or just go further into restrictions (possible). But this is how it is working so far:
View attachment 219165
China without FDI is crippled economically.
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I remember a very long time ago, some Americans referred to "Japanese Junk" in the 1960s. They almost put the US car makers out of business with that "junk" in almost every aspect of products Americans purchased. So dont let your guard down with the Chinese who now make almost all your home electronics, appliances and own GE and own Volvo

They are already bring to market this summer their Chinese built SUVs here in the USA at a very good price AND being able to structure it as a lease for those who want or qualify for the $7,500. Effectively lowering the price to 27k.

We have restrictive trade policies too in some ways. In order to be competitive and have the taxpayers contribute $7,500 for an EV the company has to have a manufacturing plant in the USA. Well, Chinese Volvo does happen to have one. It's going to be very interesting starting this summer.

I can see many Americans who want a fresh look over a Tesla with a new Volvo EV
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/volvo-landed-cheap-chinese-ev-us-shores-trade-war-rcna149349

Interesting and fresh, Time will tell of course.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/ex30-electric/
 
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How is reliability with the Chinese EVs? I know CATL is capable of making a good battery as they are used by Tesla, Ford, etc. with little to no known issues BUT what about the rest of the car?

I am confident in the long-term reliability of my 2017 Bolt however I would NOT be nearly as confident in the long-term reliability of some Chinese EV.
 
alarmguy said:
I remember a very long time ago, some Americans referred to "Japanese Junk" in the 1960s. SO dont let your guard down with the Chinese.
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Japan is democracy. Democracies are not afraid of innovation. Japanese companies were not controlled politically. Japanese wealthy people didn’t swim across Rio Grande to get away from government or gave birth to babies in US or UK so their kids could have different citizenship.
It is modus operandi of any totalitarian regime. The regime is purpose to itself. Any free thinking is threat. And to truly innovate, and not just copy, you need free society.
 
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