Chinese Aircraft Carriers

[Shrike9]

Your single short statements are unsubstantiated opinion. With no examples, no evidence, they are meaningless opinion.

I’ve been in the room with the guy, and you’re completely wrong about him. He was respected, admired, and loved by his Marines.

Good for you, I’m not about to violate the rules again and again as it’s political and against the rules to speak about politics, especially when it’s about a false god

 

[goblin]

...

I’ve been in the room with the guy, and you’re completely wrong about him. He was respected, admired, and loved by his Marines.

We have received reports of a subsonic boom. After verification, it was confirmed to be the sound of a microphone dropping. All clear.

Good for you, I’m not about to violate the rules again and again as it’s political and against the rules to speak about politics, especially when it’s about a false god

Errr...
You can drop bs, but we shouldn't react on it because it would be politics ? Convenient much ?

No one was discussing specific people here before you did. You got that horse out of the barn - ride it.

 

[Shrike9]

We're not "trying to align with China" in the slightest. Europe, yes.

Not what your PM is saying

 

[goblin]

You know nothing about my feelings

You made comments about people you don't know and were rebuked by people who do know them. I'll take their opinion. That little sting you might be feeling is normal.

I don't want to bring the thread to a lock, so I'll disengage. Just don't take it as an agreement. Cheers

 

[Shrike9]

You know nothing about my feelings

You made comments about people you don't know and were rebuked by people who do know them. I'll take their opinion. That little sting you might be feeling is normal.

I don't want to bring the thread to a lock, so I'll disengage. Just don't take it as an agreement. Cheers

Oh I’m not taking it as an agreement

Hitler was loved by those who knew him and they defended him up to the very last

Does not mean he was a great guy

 

[goblin]

...Hitler...

Reductio ad Hitlerum, here we come

 

[Shrike9]

Reductio ad Hitlerum, here we come

Just comparing apples to apples

 

[GON]

Yeah they somehow make worse copies of our original 40 year old stuff.

Published by the same mindset that stated taking out the Northern Vietnamese would be a walk in the park.

 

[GON]

They have a no combat experience.



We would have easily won if we just fire bombed them like we did with Dresden and Tokyo in WW2 and didn't have to go through the political ho-hah. Drop a bunch of napalm on their huts and end it as fast as possible. But like always the people sitting comfortably on their couch watching the war from across the world and trying to put their little grubby fingers in everything is the problem.

Clueless.

You I believe are of Vietnamese background.

Yet might have missed the Vietnamese mindset. There are numerous reasons Vietnam is a independent nation, with its neighbor to the north doing everything possible to unstablize Vietnam for many, many years.

One mindset, Vietnamese woman. Something rarely spoken about.. Vietnamese woman are a huge combat multiplier unlike most woman on the globe

One example, Vietnamese girls are culturally taught from birth about the sovereignty of their nation. They are taught to wait for years, even twenty years, for the right moment to "slit the throat of a occupying enemy".

When was the last time a western nation taught their girls from a early age to protect their nation's sovereignty, even it it meant staying quiet and quaint for 20 years, waiting for the right moment to take out a enemy occupier.

 

[GON]

People/Nations are always enslaved to their bankers/lenders when deep in debt.

 

[pbm]

They have all our plane and ship plans. Their new fighter jets look exactly like our latest fighters.

The Chinese ignore patents and copyrights and steal intellectual property. They haven’t invented anything since gunpowder. On top of that their top minds are usually educated at our universities….

 

[hemioiler]

You might not think you are, but his actions speak otherwise

They don't. But you're welcome to your opinion.

A very recent interview with Carney:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-china-security-carney-9.7022515

 

[GON]

The Chinese ignore patents and copyrights and steal intellectual property. They haven’t invented anything since gunpowder. On top of that their top minds are usually educated at our universities….

Yes, but they are so much of the Western Worlds banker/ lender. Golden rule. He who has he gold makes the rules.

 

[Vil_Riker]

The Chinese ignore patents and copyrights and steal intellectual property. They haven’t invented anything since gunpowder. On top of that their top minds are usually educated at our universities….

LOL, right.

 

[Pew]

Oh now you are turning this political

You still haven't answered my question.

And like I posted before, when he was just a no-name General, he still walked the lines with lowly enlisted and still asked all his Marines if they needed anything. A real leader who lead from the front.

Clueless.

You I believe are of Vietnamese background.

Yet might have missed the Vietnamese mindset. There are numerous reasons Vietnam is a independent nation, with its neighbor to the north doing everything possible to unstablize Vietnam for many, many years.

One mindset, Vietnamese woman. Something rarely spoken about.. Vietnamese woman are a huge combat multiplier unlike most woman on the globe

One example, Vietnamese girls are culturally taught from birth about the sovereignty of their nation. They are taught to wait for years, even twenty years, for the right moment to "slit the throat of a occupying enemy".

When was the last time a western nation taught their girls from a early age to protect their nation's sovereignty, even it it meant staying quiet and quaint for 20 years, waiting for the right moment to take out a enemy occupier.

No not Vietnamese.

Have you ever served? I remember your Brother and Sister did, don't remember if you ever did. I say this because you think just like a politician when it comes to war and assume that war should mean occupation, that we're going to be there for 20 years. If you want war then let loose the hounds of war. Bomb them, maim them, kill them mentally and physically, and leave. It's war. Quit diddle-dallying and wasting the time and lives of thousands of men and women. If you're not ready for it then don't bother having a war.

I remember my mom angry more often than she was not. I've seen her pick up the big bags of rice without missing a step - she still does. Her and the women in her village used to walk for miles in mountain terrain to carry clean water back. None of that matters when an aircraft that carries 30x1000 pound jdams levels the area.

Or you can keep thinking Corollas are fine for troop transport in an active war zone because you read one book about the Armenian War.

Anyways, as Maj Gen Smedley Butler once said:
WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives

We're not an occupation force. Should never be.

 

[TumblrDucks]

I have significant access to all the information on how to bench press 600lb, how to do a triple axel on ice, how to throw an uppercut to KO Mike Tyson and how to run 100m dash in sub 10 seconds. The information is there. I read it all. Or so I think

WARNING: Long read ahead. Grab a beer.

A severely crippled USA is an USA that brings all shipment routes to a full stop in 48 hours, anywhere.

China's sea access is interesting. To quote Sarah Paine - "China has access to the sea — but not freedom at sea". You can not block China's Navy, they can go where they want, but all of China's exits to the world sea routes are subject to friction with close and further neighbors. There is no single maritime exit passage (or barely) which is fully under Chinese control.

In this sense, China can exercise very good sea denial, but not as good control of its local seas This is inportant, because its navy automatically shifts towards being a defense shield. It can bring the whole area to a halt, but can not bring the area to full control.



This is patently false.
An isolated USA will tighten its belt and have to replace its iPhones every four years rather than every year. If you manage to isolate it economically and politically at all. And unless a very solid anti-US coalition is created and for some miracle the US refuses to use nuclear weapons - there is no scenario where you can do a maritime blockade on the US. Or on Canada. Or even on Mexico.

An isolated and blockaded China will experience food shortages. Serious ones. They will not starve from that, they do produce carbs and calories (rice, wheat, corn, potatoes), they will be able to establish a wartime diet for sure, and they will not starve. They will however experience a severe protein crisis. They rely on imports for soybeans, animal feed, oils.

And soybeans are not something you nibble in front of your TV - they are the main staple of the livestock diet. Cut that, and their meat production collapses. Poultry will probably be salvageable - it is the main "restauration" meat source, the full cycle from egg to chicken is about 90 days, that's why countries recovering from wars first start with poultry then go with everything else. But the population's diet will become miserable. People will eat what their grandparents did.

If you read Frederick Forsyth's "The Biafra Story" (one of his lesser known books) - there's a passage about the famine in Biafra when the supply routes were cut. Kids were dying from malnutrition in droves, while having good access to grain and staple food. It's simply that the shipments of Norwegian dried cod (or whatever other fish it was) that used to come for the last several decades, stopped abruptly. And it turned out this was their only source of protein. Kids starved to death while eating.

Do this for long enough, and this very homogenous population (it is not, btw) will very homogenously kick its government out. They've had famines in the 50s and 60s, but back then they were coming from 30 years of civil wars (killed about 28 million), then another 30ish years of warlords and Japanese occupation. Nowadays, they have tasted the western way of life. They have tested comfort. They have tasted stability. Try getting that away and switch them to glorious fight for glorious Winnie, see what happens.


America's only strategical problem is that most of its opponents are smart enough to not poke it enough to make it switch to war setup. Their skills are to keep it at the edge, but never have it cross and switch. Those are great skills. They are very dangerous. And they can hurt a lot.

That came out long, but there's a lot to discuss. I was moderating a forum in Eastern Europe for a very long time, and have first hand experience with direct propaganda, and most of the usual narratives. Take this as pure truth, and you'll cry bitter tears. "American soldiers are soft, they rely on technology only, their weapons are too complex, they never met a real ennemy in the last 70 years, they have no spirit, they are mercenaries, they lost in Vietnam, they won the First Iraq war because the Iraqis were incompetent, blah blah blah".

I happen to understand Russian - there were recordings of a call from a Wagner soldier that was part of the Wagner forces that "weren't there" during the battle of Conoco Field in Syria a few years ago.
What was that - well, in short - US forces were engaged by some unknown Syrian groups, so they picked up the de-escalation phone to the Russian forces on the other side and went

- "guys, we're being attacked, just to confirm - it's not you, right ???"
- "No no no, comrade, of course not, we don't know what you talking about".
- "Ok then, good, we can retaliate then".

Epic stuff. The Wagner guy boiled down to "We deserved what we got, because for a second we bought into our own BS".

So no. Don't bury us yet .

PS: About China's industrial abilities - yes, they are impressive. Search the following in YouTube: "China’s Machine Tools 50 Years Behind West; A 1.4 Billion Nation Bested by 200-Person Japanese Shops". The channel it's on is not exactly pro-Chinese, but the video is quite interesting and shows stuff that you don't see every day. Does it put things in a different light - I'm not sure.

PPS: Little piece of useless analysis from a guy who grew up elsewhere:

- What sport do little and less little boys play in the whole World ? Football, it's called everywhere but here. Well - SOCCER, in our neck of the woods.
What does soccer teach ? Running. Stamina, and running. Health, and running.

- What sport do little and less little boys play in North America ? Let's see...
Football. AMERICAN football.
Baseball.
Hockey up North.

What are boys from all over the World good at when they go to war ?
- They are good at RUNNING. They can run forever, in various directions, in very fast sprints.

What are boys from North America trained to do when they go to war ?
- Throw grenades - very far, and very accurately.
- Smash things and people with bats. Very accurately.
- Run THROUGH people. Very efficiently.
- Do all of the above, ON ICE, for our friends up North.

Sounds like a joke, but it's not. There's deep wisdom into what boys learn.

To add a point, most modern industries are not 100% self-sustained. Missing enough critical import pieces, no matter big or small, could halt the entire production process. In war this is more likely to happen and it's up to which country can adopt and overcome quicker.

 

[GON]

A single Carrier Strike Group has on the order of 60 combat aircraft - the rest being surveillance and support.

With 60 modern fighter aircraft, the carrier alone has a better air force than many nations, but I certainly wouldn’t rank it third. Consider, too, that lists of air forces include all of the trainers, transport, and other non-combat aircraft, while the Carrier is nearly all combat aircraft like F-35 and F/A-18.

So, in terms of Air Power, the carrier alone ranks much higher than the pure number comparison would suggest.

The carrier is certainly way down the list, either on numbers or on air power - but it is a credible Air Force all unto itself, with fuel, spare parts, crews, and ammunition to support sustained combat operations. An Air Force that we can position, rapidly, anywhere in the world.

What is true, for the purposes of comparison, is that the US has the largest Air Force, and that the US Navy would rank right about 2nd in the world as its own Air Force, on the basis of total aircraft, right on par with Russia.

The old saying that, “The largest Air Force in the world is the US Air Force, and the second largest is the US Navy!” is basically true.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/largest-air-forces-in-the-world

Is it accurate the U.S. Army has more watercraft than the USN?

 

[Dave Hess]

A major disadvantage the USA has is that China has significant access to Americas information technology networks and infrastructure. It's the open nature of our society and access allowed. China also doesn't have the diversity of citizens the USA has. While China may be at a slight disadvantage in terms of combat experience, they do have a massive, overwhelming manufacturing advantage and can severely cripple the USA simply by with holding RE materials and even pharmaceuticals.

War is a game of attrition. China knows this and knows the USA has no chance to win a conflict which depends on sustainability and production capability.

China is laser focused on high tech research and leads in ALL 9 fields. The USA is now far behind China in that aspect (and falling further).
We also have very little true knowledge of their capabilities. But as Americans, we always pride ourselves in over estimating our abilities while simultaneously underestimating our foes'

Unfortunately you are correct and China made substantial gains.

Look what China did with island and building runway.

America has not taken China’s military as seriously as they should have over the past 25 years.

 

[Pew]

Walking the lines with the grunts looks good, it’s all about optics & getting promoted

He did what he had to do to look good and fool the masses while only wanting what was best for himself and nobody else

He never had a strategic win, he never won a war and actually lost the Afghanistan Iraq wars even using your above definition

Yet he has people drooling all over him believing the propaganda

Where is he now, funny how he’s doing the retired general gig making money off of his political career

There was nothing to win in the first place. Bin-Laden was in Pakistan. Bush said Iraq had WMDs, surprise there wasn't any. OIF was ran by the politicians, it doesn't take a whole lot of brain processing power to realize that we swept through the country within a month and turned into an occupying force that nobody wanted there.

So yea, like I said before he was respected by every Marine I know, and all the Marines around him. That's all that matters, not some random person on the internet.

 

[Pew]

Why are you changing the subject, I’ve not asked you what you have done as it’s irrelevant

Apparently you think you're better than him, considering he has the highest regard of all Marines I know.

Show me on the doll where he hurt you.