CHINA and KUWAIT : believe it involves ...

[LTVibe]

 Originally Posted By: LTVibe

This article appeared 4 months ago: China To Bolster Oil Reserves

 Quote:

China is accelerating the build-up of its oil reserves to avoid the economic dislocations the country suffered in 2008 from fluctuations in the world oil price. China's National Energy Administration (NEA) recently released a plan to build nine large refining bases in coastal areas over the next three years, sources with the China Petroleum and Chemical Industry Association said last week.

We need to do what China is doing, and for the same reasons. But B.O. and friends won't let it happen.

Posted today on CNNMoney.com: China: The New Big Oil

 Quote:

China is snapping up oil fields from Africa to South America to the Middle East. Soon it may be able to rival the Western giants.

 

[Samilcar]

 Originally Posted By: LTVibe

Posted today on CNNMoney.com: China: The New Big Oil

"China National Petroleum Corporation's daily oil production is already roughly equivalent to Exxon's." Very interesting.

 

[smokey1]

RUSSIA is about to make an oil deal with VENEZUELA . Possibly shipment of tanks and other military supplies as well . http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-08-16-voa16.cfm .

 

[Tornado Red]

We're a strong country. Surely we can survive until the 2012 election and beyond.

 

[gmchevroletruck]

Originally Posted By: Steve S

For those missing history our politicians gave the corps the abiltiy to turn this USA from an industrial powerhouse to a third world dictatorship and the majority of people haven't quite grasped the idea.

+12

 

[gmchevroletruck]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red

We're a strong country. Surely we can survive until the 2012 election and beyond.

I hope so...and hope the further damage is kept to a minimum until then

 

[Shannow]

Good business for them to divest themselves of what they see as a risky mountain of (what people have referred to on this board, while laughing at China) "pieces of paper". Also, building roads, schools etc. in some places in Africa for development rights. Can't say that I like it, overly, but it happens.

 

[smokey1]

it's not for the people ( persuasion ) , it's all about the oil and self preservation . The difference is CHINESE government knows enough to keep quiet about their hosts wrong doings so not to get the boot and loose the loot ( oil ) .

 

[Shannow]

Come on... The US has never kept quiet about their pet dictators ?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Come on... The US has never kept quiet about their pet dictators ?

Well, we tried. The locals tend to still get in an uproar. The worst thing for a 3rd world nation to have is resources. It's a curse. Resources tend to provide either employment or wealth ..but not both. Peasants collect fruit for plantation sugar/banana/whatever barons .. Oil amasses wealth ..but provides little employment in the collecting. It's the oddest contradiction.

 

[smokey1]

greed . It's an epidemic . Here's a good example from WIDEANGLE of PBS . " Once Upon A Coup " , www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/once-upon-a-coup/full-episode/5496/ . All about the oil .

 

[Lyondellic]

Keep in mind that Shell is not a U.S. corporation, but they do have a lot of manufacturing sites here. I work in one of the larger oil refineries located along the Houston Ship Channel. I have worked in Operations and Maintenance for almost 20 years, but have been an Operations Supervisor for the last 9 years. Long story short, I have seen a lot of change throughout the years. Most of the change has been driven by two closely related factors, cost and significant incidents. For example, locking and tagging out equipment for maintenance (LO/TO) is a direct result of the October 23, 1989 explosion within the K-Resin unit at the Philips plant in Pasadena, Texas. Some of my friends responded to the aftermath of that incident, which resulted in 23 fatalities and hundreds of injuries. Government oversight, environmental and safety regulations are lax in China relative to the United States. China's demand for fossil fuels was growing at an exponential rate until the global economic downturn. China's massive labor pool and low compensation would make it attractive to any multinational energy corporation. And let's face it, life is cheap in 3rd world countries. Unfortunately, corruption, poor engineering and the use of low quality components are often the norm when manufacturing facilities are constructed in 3rd world countries. Poorly trained plant personnel have caused thousands of deaths in facilities located in 3rd world countries as well. Many here are old enough to remember the toxic gas release at a Union Carbide facility in Bhopal, India that resulted in 2,000 deaths during the mid 1980's. Thousands still suffer lingering health issues as a result of that incident today. Where am I going with all of this you may ask, well let me tell you. I believe that we will soon see the tankers in our ports unloading raw crude replaced by tankers unloading finished fossil fuels and other chemicals manufactured in 3rd world countries. Before anyone says that this could not happen, look at what happened to the steel industry in the United States. Just two years ago who would have ever fathomed that all 3 U.S. automakers would face the dire financial situations that they currently face? I believe that the time to protect our manufacturing sector has arrived. Consumers will not enjoy losing the ability to purchase cheap goods from 3rd world countries, but the alternative is the loss of our middle-class and the transition of the United States from Super-Power to 3rd world country. Just my .02 cents as a cog in the wheel of the petrochemical industry.

 

[smokey1]

thought we get refined gasoline from EUROPE ? Think that is already a good portion of gasoline consumed here . Maybe not as of lately , but large amounts before the economy took a dive . If I remember right, part of reason gas prices soared here was due to less imports of gas to U.S.to be kept at home in EUROPE . Refinery utilization was at slow pace then , less than 85% if memory is correct .

 

[Ibrahim]

the truth is that we the North Americans can no longer continue to fully and blindly rely on the world to supply us with all the resources we need to keep fueling and growing our economy.... we will have to become self reliant and at the same time continue to grow and lead in the global markets....and for that we must do everything necessary! U.S got Alaska...so i think U.S will be fine too and some oil reserves in surrounding seas and ocean... As far as Canada is concerned we got Tar Sands and oil reserves in Atlantic and Arctic Canada and tons of Uranium and many other natural resources...and above all most fresh water in the world.... May Good keep our Dominion, Forever glorious and free... Amen!

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: Lyondellic

Where am I going with all of this you may ask, well let me tell you. I believe that we will soon see the tankers in our ports unloading raw crude replaced by tankers unloading finished fossil fuels and other chemicals manufactured in 3rd world countries. Before anyone says that this could not happen, look at what happened to the steel industry in the United States. Just two years ago who would have ever fathomed that all 3 U.S. automakers would face the dire financial situations that they currently face?

Most of the increased refining capacity in the world has been in Asia -- East and South -- and in the Middle East. The US has been importing gasoline and exporting distillates for many years, but at some point it will also become a net importer of distillate fuels. It just does not make sense to spend megabucks on refining capacity in the US, and go through 5-10 years of litigation to get all the necessary permits, when you could build a new refinery for less money in 2-3 years just about everywhere else. For most consumers it will not make a bit of difference, whether the oil is imported and then refined in the US, or the refining is done elsewhere.

 

[Lyondellic]

At the present time, the vast majority of gasoline used in the United States is refined here as well. In the short term it may not make a difference to the consumer where the gasoline they buy is produced, but didn't the ripple effect of this attitude become clear when our manufacturing sector began to disappear? We need to quit thinking about free trade and start thinking about protecting the manufacturing jobs that we have left. After all, how will the consumer benefit from low-cost imported goods when only a select few can afford to buy them? "In 2007 U.S. refineries produced 90 percent of the gasoline used in the United States." Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/gasoline/index.html

 

[Gary Allan]

A hard core capitalist has no allegiance to anything except money and commerce. They salute the flag for the opportunity to make money and amass power ..and absolutely nothing else. The thanks they give is for the opportunity to do this, not the health of the environment which provides it's vitality. It's actually quite dark when the back side of the curve begins to show itself.

 

[Tornado Red]

A capitalist is anyone with some capital. So I guess right now I'm not a capitalist, but I hope to be one again, someday. The solution to the problem of disappearing jobs in the manufacturing sector -- or the refining industry, or in mining or logging or the processing of agricultural products, or fishing, or almost every industry for that matter -- lies not in trade sanctions against competing nations, but in a total overhaul of the government's taxing and regulatory policies. There is nothing wrong with this country that removing the dead weight of government (at all levels) would not fix. Unfortunately our national government is controlled by those who would make government even bigger, and punish even more those who create jobs. The stock market rally since March has been based, IMO, on a perception that President Obama will fail to achieve his principle goals, such as nationalized health care and the cap-and-trade job-killing global warming legislation. I think this is short-sighted, because IMO he will get something even if not everything he wants. And whatever he gets will prolong the recession or cause the recovery to be weaker and shorter than it otherwise would be. So I am waiting to put my 401k into ETF's of fast-growing Asian economies -- I am not at all confident of the direction of the American economy, not under the current leadership.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

The solution to the problem of disappearing jobs in the manufacturing sector -- or the refining industry, or in mining or logging or the processing of agricultural products, or fishing, or almost every industry for that matter -- lies not in trade sanctions against competing nations, but in a total overhaul of the government's taxing and regulatory policies.

I don't see it that way. While it's "true" ..the rationale behind it is not quite right. The regulations aren't there because someone decided to pull something out of their behind. Their origins are based in just cause. I don't think we want to "go back" to the fond "good old days" of child chimney sweeps and "company town" coal mines (some beg for the return to such "mastery") with their patch towns. Do we want to return to the unchecked pollution ..etc..etc. My old chemical plant pumped heavy metal concentrated waste on to the ground and paid the $250/day fine in violation of the clean water act. It would have been $500/day ..but since they discharged into an earthen impoundment, the fine was reduced. The remedy, after Agnus (color traveling down river for miles) was to the tune of millions in capital costs ..and tens of thousands in daily costs. Is that they type of stuff you want to see return? I want a "pay as you go" method of dealing with consequences for your actions. The mess we have now is the results of privatized profits and socialized costs. It's when you make your money NOW ..and put the extended bills off until later. A common practice for disposing of toxic waste was to just get a permit to store drums. Fill to capacity. Go bankrupt. Easy money. Privatized profits and socialized costs. Figure it out, the wages of sin is government intervention. Figure a way to breed a more sensible greedy person ..or instead of throwing an award banquet and cheering them along for pulling the best coup, give them the death penalty.

 

[Lyondellic]

I agree with Gary. Remember the old saying that "those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"? Our nation has already had a taste of what it's like when industry is allowed to self-regulate. Basically there was little, if any, concern for the safety or welfare of workers. Ever read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair, which was published in 1906? The furor it caused led to the passage of "Pure Food and Drug Act" and the "Meat Inspection Act" that same year. Do you remember learning about how businesses hired agents from Pinkertons to prevent workers from organizing in the late 19th century. Pure capitalism only benefits a select few and is detrimental to the working class, which is why I am not a proponent of stripping away government oversight simply to say that we have decreased the size and role of our government. The other side of the coin is excessive government oversight and taxation. Though I support and voted for Obama, most of my values align more closely with the Republican platform. Unfortunately, neither party has understood, let alone practiced, the basic principle of "Fiscal Responsibility" for far too long. Why do we continue to spend money that we do not have? China has become our largest creditor, which is incomprehensible for those of us over 40. Long story short, I am all for doing away pork barrel projects, giveaway programs and buying "allies" under the guise of foreign aid ($50+ Billion in 2009 alone). Why do we continue to operate military installations around the globe while our borders remain unsecured? I wonder how many nations operate military installations on foreign soil? Again, I think that it is time for the United States to protect jobs here at home. If this means imposing tariffs and quotas on goods produced in other countries, then so be it. Corporations will only manufacture and sell their products in the United States when the economics make it worthwhile for them to do so. The only alternative is to reduce our wages and standard of living to the point that we can compete with countries like China. Imagine what the United States would look like if we allow that to happen....