Chevy sonic 6 speed manual trans fluid
- Thread starter ram_man
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Recommended fluid is a 70W BOT 303 GL-4. GM P/N 19259104 (AC Delco 10-4037).
It looks like Redline MT-LV is an acceptable substitute for the OE fluid. About half the price too. You'll need 1.86 quarts.
It looks like Redline MT-LV is an acceptable substitute for the OE fluid. About half the price too. You'll need 1.86 quarts.
I read that GM under filled them from the factory which caused problems with 5th gear.
So, two quarts should do ya!
MolaKule
Staff member
NOTE: This list is only a “summary” list of MTFs available in the MTF Lubricant Market. It is not an endorsement nor a critique of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or those that have excessive wear.
These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.X cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]
6. Redline MT-LV SAE Viscosity Grade 70W/75W Vis 6.5cst@100°C
These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.X cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]
6. Redline MT-LV SAE Viscosity Grade 70W/75W Vis 6.5cst@100°C
I've been using Amsoil Synchromesh in my Cruze MT. I put it in the first time with 33k miles on it. I have 158k miles on it now, I change it every year or two depending on mileage. It is super easy to do (if you have a super long funnel) so I probably replace it more often than I need to. Shifts much better than OEM. On super cold mornings, it is a little stiff but overall it is much better than the OEM fluid for shift performance. I put in 2.5 quarts at each change. I tried it the first time based on much trial an error by others on the Cruze forum and this seemed to be the favorite.
Since I earlier replied in this thread, thought I'd give an update. My Cruze now has 160k miles on it and needs a new transmission. A bearing in the transmission has gone bad and apparently it is not serviceable. Even though I've religiously changed my MT fluid with the preferred fluid on the Cruze forum, I'm now questioning my fluid choice over the last several years (Amsoil Synchromesh). Redline recommends their MT-LV, which was not available back when I bought my car. It does better match the OEM viscosity as MolaKule points out. My plan was to drive this car for 300k miles, so we'll see if I fair any better with the new transmission.
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Didn't that transmission require a GL-4 spec fluid? Amsoil synchromesh never claims that spec in their information.
GL-4 specification gear oil has wear protection and buffers for yellow metal gears that most synchromesh products do not.
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A bearing in a manual transmission that's not replaceable? That's odd and a bit disturbing if true. I'd make double sure of that.
It lasted you a good while, considering wrong fluid was used: non GL-4, which is bad for synchros and anything brass inside the tranny.
Agree, because how did they assemble it in the first place? I owned two Cruzes, both automatics so no direct experience but IIRC it wasn't too difficult looking to pull the trans.
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Good observations.
While you can use synchromesh fluid in synchronized units that require GL-4, it will likely accelerate wear over time.
Most sychromesh fluids are NOT GL-4 rated, usually they are GL-3..
It can't be stated enough, if your vehicle requires GL-4 spec fluid, ONLY use GL-4 spec fluid, not synchromesh, not GL-5, not GL-3,
not GL-4+, not GL-4/5, ect....use "GL-4" ONLY!
To be clear, I believe it is the drivers side output shaft bearing. I think that to get to it requires tearing it apart enough you might as well rebuild while you are in there. So a remanufactured trans. was the most economical option and comes with a warranty. It was not an issue in the gears or synchros. I have not seen many others talking about this particular issue. Most with bearing issues are related to 5th or 6th gear I think. The couple of other examples I found similar to mine happened to them under warranty.
Everyone's point about my lack of using a GL-4 is well taken. The OEM fluid performs so poorly (shift quality) that most everyone has jumped ship, mostly to Amsoil Synchromesh. I will try the Redline MT-LV, it meets the OEM spec.'s and is cost competitive with the OEM fluid, if not cheaper.
Oh right, okay. My old ECHO had one of the output shaft bearings start to make noise, you can diagnose it by yourself by listening to when it makes noise. I replaced the four main bearings (two on each shaft) and left the needle bearings alone since they seemed fine. That was about 175,000 miles ago. When you felt the bearings out of the transmission all felt fine but at least one was bad per the noise.
My ECHO says you can use GL-4 or GL-5 so I've always used whatever I could find at the time.
I don't see where GL-4 vs GL-5 lube would impact your bearing? However....there are a LOT of poor QUALITY bearings these days as third world countries try and learn how to make clean steel.
Even good quality bearings can have a failure now and then, the one that failed in my ECHO was Toyota branded Nachi or Koyo.
And even some of the "name" brands have been sourced to third world manufacturing sites. I bought a Moog wheel hub/bearing assembly that came from China and looked exactly like the dirtbag generic ones that sell for half the price. I was paying 60 bucks for that Moog packaging LOL.
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Weren't the earlier units filled with BOT 402 GL4 75w85..... GM moved to 303 for better MPG or maybe because of limpwristed snowflake complaints. Little hint.... shouldn't be adjusting fluid viscosity for shift quality. Install a temperature sender/gauge would give you better R&D then the marketing/accounting engineers at the automaker. Does GM still sell either 402 or 303?
I don't see the bearing failure as an Amsoil issue. Upgrading from a 70w or 75w to synchromesh fluid, even though not stated GL4, but still has excellent additive package, wasn't the cause....
I doubt it was a fluid problem. GM bean counters at work!
My ol' 7.3 powerstroke is a guzzler..... should I dump the 15w40 for a 0w8 oil and drain the differentials from 75w140 to a 75w80? This is pretty much what went on with manual transmissions at all automakers.
I would say that GM did some interesting case design work to move fluid around for better temperature control within a running transmission(seems that most automakers copied it), kinda like what GaleBanks did with their 'differential cover' comparison. Obviously, it wasn't enough for all transmissions. Seen a rash of various failures among all makes that didn't make sense, other than common move to thinner fluid.
Use the OE or the Redline LV fluid. It will give you the best MPG. The future failures are inevitable. If it were mine, I'd use the BOT402 or Redline MT85 and thumb my noses at the MPG. And when cold, just be patient with the transmission. All manuals can be a little annoying with cold. Its the nature of the beast. The SAE140, pretty sure solid like a bar of soap, used in a company fleet was a little difficult to shift 30 years ago, especially in winter.... nothing like battling with reverse, and then riding 1st gear thru the company lot, and out on the road 1/2 mile before 'attempting' a shift to 2nd. Manual transmission are nothing like arcade/video games with their pseudo shifter.
A good transmission shop can swap in a Sega Arcade shifter into your vehicle... and you can have all your shifting fun in the driveway. Too many learned to drive a manual in a video game.
I don't see the bearing failure as an Amsoil issue. Upgrading from a 70w or 75w to synchromesh fluid, even though not stated GL4, but still has excellent additive package, wasn't the cause....
I doubt it was a fluid problem. GM bean counters at work!
My ol' 7.3 powerstroke is a guzzler..... should I dump the 15w40 for a 0w8 oil and drain the differentials from 75w140 to a 75w80? This is pretty much what went on with manual transmissions at all automakers.
I would say that GM did some interesting case design work to move fluid around for better temperature control within a running transmission(seems that most automakers copied it), kinda like what GaleBanks did with their 'differential cover' comparison. Obviously, it wasn't enough for all transmissions. Seen a rash of various failures among all makes that didn't make sense, other than common move to thinner fluid.
Use the OE or the Redline LV fluid. It will give you the best MPG. The future failures are inevitable. If it were mine, I'd use the BOT402 or Redline MT85 and thumb my noses at the MPG. And when cold, just be patient with the transmission. All manuals can be a little annoying with cold. Its the nature of the beast. The SAE140, pretty sure solid like a bar of soap, used in a company fleet was a little difficult to shift 30 years ago, especially in winter.... nothing like battling with reverse, and then riding 1st gear thru the company lot, and out on the road 1/2 mile before 'attempting' a shift to 2nd. Manual transmission are nothing like arcade/video games with their pseudo shifter.
A good transmission shop can swap in a Sega Arcade shifter into your vehicle... and you can have all your shifting fun in the driveway. Too many learned to drive a manual in a video game.
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