Chevy does it again!
- Thread starter fdcg27
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Nice numbers. But how fast you can go is not the be all.
I would take a mid 90's 911, let alone a new one, before I would take the new Camaro.
German engineering > Everything else
Right.
I guess slower equals better engineering?
No.
Better engineering equals better engineering.
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Nice numbers. But how fast you can go is not the be all.
I would take a mid 90's 911, let alone a new one, before I would take the new Camaro.
German engineering > Everything else
Right.
I guess slower equals better engineering?
No.
Better engineering equals better engineering.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.
My 2006 GTO FTW.
But a Maro is just so much more bass [censored] looking then the joke GTO of that era. The GTO name should have never been on that body platform, a disgrace IMO.
Anybody got one of those jokes for sale? I sure would like to have one someday! Those cars were and still are WAY under-appreciated. Holden is just awesome. I LOVE my wife's G8 GT,but not as much as she does.
Congrats to Chevy and the ZL1. A local contractor has ordered one from the GM dealership here. That's to go along with his Viper among other things. Must be nice!
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.
My 2006 GTO FTW.
But a Maro is just so much more bass [censored] looking then the joke GTO of that era. The GTO name should have never been on that body platform, a disgrace IMO.
Anybody got one of those jokes for sale? I sure would like to have one someday! Those cars were and still are WAY under-appreciated. Holden is just awesome. I LOVE my wife's G8 GT,but not as much as she does.
Congrats to Chevy and the ZL1. A local contractor has ordered one from the GM dealership here. That's to go along with his Viper among other things. Must be nice!
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I say it took Ford ahwile to catch up after the introduction of the LS1. Up until about 07 any LS1 would walk a way from a Mustang unless you were talking an 03 or 04 Cobra.
Seems like it took Ford longer to get around an engine that was introduced in 97 and wasn't put in an F-body after 02 because there were not made any made. But the F-bodies left were still beating up on 4.6 cars for awhile after their final production run.
From what I remember back in 96-03 or so the Cobra and the Camaro were both neck and neck in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The cars were so close it pretty much always depended on the driver. I know I surprised a Camaro driver or 2 when I had my Cobra in 97.
Camaro has almost always been a "me-too" car.
Wrong spent many summers at the track. The guy I was on the boat with had two different N/A Cobras and were they lucky to see mid 13's on a perfect day day. Tons of 01 and 02 bone stock LS1 cars cracked off 12.90's mine included. Average 6 speed cars ran 13.20. The only two 4.6 cars that did that were the Mach 1 and the 03 and 04 Cobra.
Your 97 would be ruined by a 1998 LS1 car. You may suprise an LT1.
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/4v-svt/87956-01-cobra-vs-01-camaro-ss.html
Read and learn you 97 is slower than the 01. And their is no difference in 1/4 time between the SS and normal Z28, Trans am
http://3.7mustang.com/vb/f29/1998-cobra-mustang-ls-transam-z28-116723/
These are even from the Mustang boards. It is all over the net. Unless your are rolling a Mach 1, 03/04 Cobra or an 07 or up. You are getting beat stock for stock.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I say it took Ford ahwile to catch up after the introduction of the LS1. Up until about 07 any LS1 would walk a way from a Mustang unless you were talking an 03 or 04 Cobra.
Seems like it took Ford longer to get around an engine that was introduced in 97 and wasn't put in an F-body after 02 because there were not made any made. But the F-bodies left were still beating up on 4.6 cars for awhile after their final production run.
From what I remember back in 96-03 or so the Cobra and the Camaro were both neck and neck in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The cars were so close it pretty much always depended on the driver. I know I surprised a Camaro driver or 2 when I had my Cobra in 97.
Camaro has almost always been a "me-too" car.
Wrong spent many summers at the track. The guy I was on the boat with had two different N/A Cobras and were they lucky to see mid 13's on a perfect day day. Tons of 01 and 02 bone stock LS1 cars cracked off 12.90's mine included. Average 6 speed cars ran 13.20. The only two 4.6 cars that did that were the Mach 1 and the 03 and 04 Cobra.
Your 97 would be ruined by a 1998 LS1 car. You may suprise an LT1.
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/4v-svt/87956-01-cobra-vs-01-camaro-ss.html
Read and learn you 97 is slower than the 01. And their is no difference in 1/4 time between the SS and normal Z28, Trans am
http://3.7mustang.com/vb/f29/1998-cobra-mustang-ls-transam-z28-116723/
These are even from the Mustang boards. It is all over the net. Unless your are rolling a Mach 1, 03/04 Cobra or an 07 or up. You are getting beat stock for stock.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Cool the top of the line Camaro which has 200hp more than the 911 beat it by only a second? Since its so heavy I guess that makes sense.
Who compares these cars in real life?
FYI the Porsche equivalent to the ZL1 would be the 911 GT2RS or the 911 GT3 4.0 RS.
The LFA is a super car, it doesn't compare to anything in the test and wasn't pushed because it should have been on the 458's heals. Different price point and customer target than the 458 though, not comparable.
This is why I stopped reading Car & Driver, they should run more comparable cars to the Camaro, cars that people would actually cross shop in real life.
Now a ZR1 vs a GT2 or 3 and maybe a Ferrari 599evo thrown in that would be interesting...
C'mon, PRICE is the relevant strategy here, not your teutonic biases. The camaro has chassis genius that most cannot match, even at incredibly high dollars. There is also some truly unique refinement to the Camaro's power delivery, as both the ZR-1 and the ZL-1 have the ability to put their power to the road better than many higher powered cars.
458 is the real winner, as it was on real street tires and was FAR AND AWAY the fastest real production car, clocking 158 mph on the straight!!! That LFA is a typical halo poseur, clocking 150 on the straightaway.
The C63 Black also had racing rubber, not real street tires. Then there's the Porsche 911 that ran quicker than the 07 GT3 AND the 09 Carrera S. So what's to complain about?
The 07 GT3 is down a lot of power compared to the latest version, 380 vs 500. Plus it weighs just under 3k pounds...what are the Camaro's numbers 580 and 4500 pounds something like that off the top of my head?
No one cross shops a Camaro to an LFA. That's like comparing a shrimp boat to a Rybovich, both will get a line in the water but they are in different worlds in every area. The LFA is an F1 engine powered precision tool.
German bias...says the Dodge SRT owner which is a W210 AMG underneath with a Mercedes transmission, and running gear.
You know the car they should have put against the Camaro? The Nissan GTR. The GTR is fast.
I would have put the Camaro against cars it competes with, somewhat:
Mustang of course.
GTR
Audi RS5
Would have made for an interesting AWD vs RWD comparison.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Cool the top of the line Camaro which has 200hp more than the 911 beat it by only a second? Since its so heavy I guess that makes sense.
Who compares these cars in real life?
FYI the Porsche equivalent to the ZL1 would be the 911 GT2RS or the 911 GT3 4.0 RS.
The LFA is a super car, it doesn't compare to anything in the test and wasn't pushed because it should have been on the 458's heals. Different price point and customer target than the 458 though, not comparable.
This is why I stopped reading Car & Driver, they should run more comparable cars to the Camaro, cars that people would actually cross shop in real life.
Now a ZR1 vs a GT2 or 3 and maybe a Ferrari 599evo thrown in that would be interesting...
C'mon, PRICE is the relevant strategy here, not your teutonic biases. The camaro has chassis genius that most cannot match, even at incredibly high dollars. There is also some truly unique refinement to the Camaro's power delivery, as both the ZR-1 and the ZL-1 have the ability to put their power to the road better than many higher powered cars.
458 is the real winner, as it was on real street tires and was FAR AND AWAY the fastest real production car, clocking 158 mph on the straight!!! That LFA is a typical halo poseur, clocking 150 on the straightaway.
The C63 Black also had racing rubber, not real street tires. Then there's the Porsche 911 that ran quicker than the 07 GT3 AND the 09 Carrera S. So what's to complain about?
The 07 GT3 is down a lot of power compared to the latest version, 380 vs 500. Plus it weighs just under 3k pounds...what are the Camaro's numbers 580 and 4500 pounds something like that off the top of my head?
No one cross shops a Camaro to an LFA. That's like comparing a shrimp boat to a Rybovich, both will get a line in the water but they are in different worlds in every area. The LFA is an F1 engine powered precision tool.
German bias...says the Dodge SRT owner which is a W210 AMG underneath with a Mercedes transmission, and running gear.
You know the car they should have put against the Camaro? The Nissan GTR. The GTR is fast.
I would have put the Camaro against cars it competes with, somewhat:
Mustang of course.
GTR
Audi RS5
Would have made for an interesting AWD vs RWD comparison.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Nice numbers. But how fast you can go is not the be all.
I would take a mid 90's 911, let alone a new one, before I would take the new Camaro.
German engineering > Everything else
Right.
I guess slower equals better engineering?
No.
Better engineering equals better engineering.
Yep.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Nice numbers. But how fast you can go is not the be all.
I would take a mid 90's 911, let alone a new one, before I would take the new Camaro.
German engineering > Everything else
Right.
I guess slower equals better engineering?
No.
Better engineering equals better engineering.
Yep.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
My coworker is a GTO fanatic. Has a bone stock 2004 (5.7LS1), 2006 (6.0L) and another 2004 that is major modified (6.2L crate engine with cams etc)and he races that one. His statement is that no stock GTO ever ran 3.9 to 60 nor can hit 175mph. With mods yes, but not stock as I think you were saying.
But awesome cars, nonetheless!!
Sigh.............
Stock 2006 GTO Top Speed = 175MPH.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/pontiac/2006-pontiac-gto-ar1247.html
My coworker is a GTO fanatic. Has a bone stock 2004 (5.7LS1), 2006 (6.0L) and another 2004 that is major modified (6.2L crate engine with cams etc)and he races that one. His statement is that no stock GTO ever ran 3.9 to 60 nor can hit 175mph. With mods yes, but not stock as I think you were saying.
But awesome cars, nonetheless!!
Sigh.............
Stock 2006 GTO Top Speed = 175MPH.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/pontiac/2006-pontiac-gto-ar1247.html
Hey, let's get real here. The newer Goats are great bang for the buck cars, but seriously lacking in a track setting. The wheels are too small for any real brake upgrades, too, so even the aftermarket cannot correct that one glaring problem.
But on the street they are DEFINITELY a force to be reckoned with, and even minor engine mods make them a real screamer. Plus they have the traditional inexpensive to own nature of most of the GM pony cars.
I would not hesitate to get one if a deal came along.
But on the street they are DEFINITELY a force to be reckoned with, and even minor engine mods make them a real screamer. Plus they have the traditional inexpensive to own nature of most of the GM pony cars.
I would not hesitate to get one if a deal came along.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Hey, let's get real here. The newer Goats are great bang for the buck cars, but seriously lacking in a track setting. The wheels are too small for any real brake upgrades, too, so even the aftermarket cannot correct that one glaring problem.
But on the street they are DEFINITELY a force to be reckoned with, and even minor engine mods make them a real screamer. Plus they have the traditional inexpensive to own nature of most of the GM pony cars.
I would not hesitate to get one if a deal came along.
Right, which cooresponds to my original post that got poo-poo'd...
Hey, let's get real here. The newer Goats are great bang for the buck cars, but seriously lacking in a track setting. The wheels are too small for any real brake upgrades, too, so even the aftermarket cannot correct that one glaring problem.
But on the street they are DEFINITELY a force to be reckoned with, and even minor engine mods make them a real screamer. Plus they have the traditional inexpensive to own nature of most of the GM pony cars.
I would not hesitate to get one if a deal came along.
Right, which cooresponds to my original post that got poo-poo'd...
^^^Don't feel bad, just remember I'm used to getting no respect as well!
My buddy had an 04 with a small remote turbo setup on a bone stock engine and chassis that routinely ran high 10's at the drags. Trapped very close to 140 mph!!!
A lot of folks used to poo-poo his car too, until they saw the slips!
My buddy had an 04 with a small remote turbo setup on a bone stock engine and chassis that routinely ran high 10's at the drags. Trapped very close to 140 mph!!!
A lot of folks used to poo-poo his car too, until they saw the slips!
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.
My 2006 GTO FTW.
Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
lol no kidding...
Uhhhhhhh... How is it "not in the same ballpark"?
GTO 0-60 is 3.9 Seconds & stock top speed is 175MPH.
I could easily get 195-205MPH out of my GTO.
So, how is that "not in the same ballpark"?
Show me data, not both of your prejudices.
...and I stand by my original statement: "You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money."
That is true.
I have nothing against your car, I'm sure it performs great for what it is.
But the fact that you think you're car can "easily" do 200 mph shows your ignorance on the subject. It certainly wouldn't do it in a standing mile, not even close.
And there's more to performance then a straight line. You're car certainly wouldn't be in the same "ball park" if we had your lap times on the track in question. Or perhaps something like the Nurburgring, please... if you're car could even make one lap all out.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.
My 2006 GTO FTW.
Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
lol no kidding...
Uhhhhhhh... How is it "not in the same ballpark"?
GTO 0-60 is 3.9 Seconds & stock top speed is 175MPH.
I could easily get 195-205MPH out of my GTO.
So, how is that "not in the same ballpark"?
Show me data, not both of your prejudices.
...and I stand by my original statement: "You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money."
That is true.
I have nothing against your car, I'm sure it performs great for what it is.
But the fact that you think you're car can "easily" do 200 mph shows your ignorance on the subject. It certainly wouldn't do it in a standing mile, not even close.
And there's more to performance then a straight line. You're car certainly wouldn't be in the same "ball park" if we had your lap times on the track in question. Or perhaps something like the Nurburgring, please... if you're car could even make one lap all out.
Last edited:
Can't beat a bench racer, that's for sure.
Ever actually attended a standing mile race anywhere?
Ever actually attended a standing mile race anywhere?
Don't get me wrong i bleed GM have all my life will never own anything else, the power plant/trans is fine great but to compare it to the new maro and it's performance capability's is just crazy,the platform its in is a joke.
coming from a guy thats owned a pristine '70 and been around Pontiacs(TA/Firebird/formula/lemans) my whole life it was such a let down when that car hit the scene.
coming from a guy thats owned a pristine '70 and been around Pontiacs(TA/Firebird/formula/lemans) my whole life it was such a let down when that car hit the scene.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Can't beat a bench racer, that's for sure.
Ever actually attended a standing mile race anywhere?
Are you referring to me? I'm not the one throwing "in theory" performance numbers around. That would be your new friend Turk.
Yeah, I've been to the Texas mile. Twice. Which is why I reference a "standing mile."
I've seen what it takes to do 200mph, and it's alot more then a GTO with a bolt on blower.
I've been around performance cars my whole life, and build them from the ground up.
Can't beat a bench racer, that's for sure.
Ever actually attended a standing mile race anywhere?
Are you referring to me? I'm not the one throwing "in theory" performance numbers around. That would be your new friend Turk.
Yeah, I've been to the Texas mile. Twice. Which is why I reference a "standing mile."
I've seen what it takes to do 200mph, and it's alot more then a GTO with a bolt on blower.
I've been around performance cars my whole life, and build them from the ground up.
Whoa. TWICE you say? I am humbled before you and your incredible depth of experience.
Perhaps you will at least give me credit for not knocking YOUR car. Where I come from that's in poor taste. Ooops, we won't even have that opportunity, will we?
Turk is indeed a friend, and obviously a proud owner of his GTO. Nothing wrong with that.
But there's a lot wrong with someone coming in here with the intent of bad mouthing someone's pride and joy.
Sure hope I see you at the track some day.
Perhaps you will at least give me credit for not knocking YOUR car. Where I come from that's in poor taste. Ooops, we won't even have that opportunity, will we?
Turk is indeed a friend, and obviously a proud owner of his GTO. Nothing wrong with that.
But there's a lot wrong with someone coming in here with the intent of bad mouthing someone's pride and joy.
Sure hope I see you at the track some day.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Whoa. TWICE you say? I am humbled before you and your incredible depth of experience.
Perhaps you will at least give me credit for not knocking YOUR car. Where I come from that's in poor taste. Ooops, we won't even have that opportunity, will we?
Turk is indeed a friend, and obviously a proud owner of his GTO. Nothing wrong with that.
But there's a lot wrong with someone coming in here with the intent of bad mouthing someone's pride and joy.
Sure hope I see you at the track some day.
So I'm measured on how many times I've attended a single event? Oh what arguments people make on the internet. .
.
And re-read my post. I never knocked his GTO per se , I just don't agree with comparing it to the car in the OP.
How many times has your buddy Turk been there? I bet never, so what does that make him, an even lesser person then I? We're so beneath you now...
I guess I'm suppose to assume you've run there? Prove it.
And you don't know what car I have, or have built.
Whoa. TWICE you say? I am humbled before you and your incredible depth of experience.
Perhaps you will at least give me credit for not knocking YOUR car. Where I come from that's in poor taste. Ooops, we won't even have that opportunity, will we?
Turk is indeed a friend, and obviously a proud owner of his GTO. Nothing wrong with that.
But there's a lot wrong with someone coming in here with the intent of bad mouthing someone's pride and joy.
Sure hope I see you at the track some day.
So I'm measured on how many times I've attended a single event? Oh what arguments people make on the internet. .
And re-read my post. I never knocked his GTO per se , I just don't agree with comparing it to the car in the OP.
How many times has your buddy Turk been there? I bet never, so what does that make him, an even lesser person then I? We're so beneath you now...
I guess I'm suppose to assume you've run there? Prove it.
And you don't know what car I have, or have built.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
....
My coworker is a GTO fanatic. Has a bone stock 2004 (5.7LS1), 2006 (6.0L) and another 2004 that is major modified (6.2L crate engine with cams etc)and he races that one. His statement is that no stock GTO ever ran 3.9 to 60 nor can hit 175mph. With mods yes, but not stock as I think you were saying.
But awesome cars, nonetheless!!
The Garmin GPS recorded 174 in my unmodified LS1 powered GTO.
They were supposed to have a speed limiter, but that's what my Garmin recorded. I'm aware that these GPS's are not entirely accurate at recording speed, but nonetheless, that's what my Garmin recorded, and even with a 10% per cent error, that's pretty fast. I've only been able to get my Xj12 up to 155-158 ish, and it cost almost 4X as much a decade earlier.
The Monaro / GTO was the best bang for the buck to ever hit the streets in this country, imho.
....
My coworker is a GTO fanatic. Has a bone stock 2004 (5.7LS1), 2006 (6.0L) and another 2004 that is major modified (6.2L crate engine with cams etc)and he races that one. His statement is that no stock GTO ever ran 3.9 to 60 nor can hit 175mph. With mods yes, but not stock as I think you were saying.
But awesome cars, nonetheless!!
The Garmin GPS recorded 174 in my unmodified LS1 powered GTO.
They were supposed to have a speed limiter, but that's what my Garmin recorded. I'm aware that these GPS's are not entirely accurate at recording speed, but nonetheless, that's what my Garmin recorded, and even with a 10% per cent error, that's pretty fast. I've only been able to get my Xj12 up to 155-158 ish, and it cost almost 4X as much a decade earlier.
The Monaro / GTO was the best bang for the buck to ever hit the streets in this country, imho.
Originally Posted By: daman
Its not in the same ball park because it wasn't even based off of GMs own design but Manaros v platform and wouldn't hold a candle to the Maro in handling or over all performance.
Isn't the current Camaro a Holden take-off, just like the GTO?
Its not in the same ball park because it wasn't even based off of GMs own design but Manaros v platform and wouldn't hold a candle to the Maro in handling or over all performance.
Isn't the current Camaro a Holden take-off, just like the GTO?
- Status
