Chevy does it again!

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Originally Posted By: itguy08
So what did they do? Finally have a Camaro that can beat a Mustang? Sure took them long enough! Sounds like it would get spanked if the Shelby had better tires.

It's one test on 1 course. I'd still rock any of those cars above the Camaro.


Finally? The regular SS has been beating the mustang on road courses since it came out. Even the shelby version since its chassis cant handle all the power.
 
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
...Motor Trend has a YouTube head to head where the GT500 came ahead on lap times.
(search YT Motortrend..gt500 vs ZL1 its the first hit)

Depending on the course you can fine tune the outcome to almost any car.


Note that VIR is a fast course where high power really plays well. The Camaro wins by virtue of superior chassis tuning, period. Its HUGE weight handicap only further diminishes the hot Stangs track cred. The new Stang is monstrously powerful but simply lacks the chassis to go with it.

Even devout GT500 fans have told me at HPDE's that their steeds are simply not track cars. As stated by previous poster, they make their money in a straight line. I'd take a Boss over a GT500 any day...
 
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.

My 2006 GTO FTW.



Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
crazy.gif
 
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.

My 2006 GTO FTW.



Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
crazy.gif


lol no kidding...
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Cool the top of the line Camaro which has 200hp more than the 911 beat it by only a second? Since its so heavy I guess that makes sense.

Who compares these cars in real life?

FYI the Porsche equivalent to the ZL1 would be the 911 GT2RS or the 911 GT3 4.0 RS.

The LFA is a super car, it doesn't compare to anything in the test and wasn't pushed because it should have been on the 458's heals. Different price point and customer target than the 458 though, not comparable.

This is why I stopped reading Car & Driver, they should run more comparable cars to the Camaro, cars that people would actually cross shop in real life.

Now a ZR1 vs a GT2 or 3 and maybe a Ferrari 599evo thrown in that would be interesting...



C'mon, PRICE is the relevant strategy here, not your teutonic biases. The camaro has chassis genius that most cannot match, even at incredibly high dollars. There is also some truly unique refinement to the Camaro's power delivery, as both the ZR-1 and the ZL-1 have the ability to put their power to the road better than many higher powered cars.

458 is the real winner, as it was on real street tires and was FAR AND AWAY the fastest real production car, clocking 158 mph on the straight!!! That LFA is a typical halo poseur, clocking 150 on the straightaway.

The C63 Black also had racing rubber, not real street tires. Then there's the Porsche 911 that ran quicker than the 07 GT3 AND the 09 Carrera S. So what's to complain about?
 
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I say it took Ford ahwile to catch up after the introduction of the LS1. Up until about 07 any LS1 would walk a way from a Mustang unless you were talking an 03 or 04 Cobra.
Seems like it took Ford longer to get around an engine that was introduced in 97 and wasn't put in an F-body after 02 because there were not made any made. But the F-bodies left were still beating up on 4.6 cars for awhile after their final production run.


From what I remember back in 96-03 or so the Cobra and the Camaro were both neck and neck in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. The cars were so close it pretty much always depended on the driver. I know I surprised a Camaro driver or 2 when I had my Cobra in 97.

Camaro has almost always been a "me-too" car.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Cool the top of the line Camaro which has 200hp more than the 911 beat it by only a second? Since its so heavy I guess that makes sense.

Who compares these cars in real life?

FYI the Porsche equivalent to the ZL1 would be the 911 GT2RS or the 911 GT3 4.0 RS.

The LFA is a super car, it doesn't compare to anything in the test and wasn't pushed because it should have been on the 458's heals. Different price point and customer target than the 458 though, not comparable.

This is why I stopped reading Car & Driver, they should run more comparable cars to the Camaro, cars that people would actually cross shop in real life.

Now a ZR1 vs a GT2 or 3 and maybe a Ferrari 599evo thrown in that would be interesting...



C'mon, PRICE is the relevant strategy here, not your teutonic biases. The camaro has chassis genius that most cannot match, even at incredibly high dollars. There is also some truly unique refinement to the Camaro's power delivery, as both the ZR-1 and the ZL-1 have the ability to put their power to the road better than many higher powered cars.

458 is the real winner, as it was on real street tires and was FAR AND AWAY the fastest real production car, clocking 158 mph on the straight!!! That LFA is a typical halo poseur, clocking 150 on the straightaway.

The C63 Black also had racing rubber, not real street tires. Then there's the Porsche 911 that ran quicker than the 07 GT3 AND the 09 Carrera S. So what's to complain about?


But sadly enough, he's looking at it from a Gordon Gekko/Mitt viewpoint, where PRICE means NOTHING WHATSOEVER, and if it takes $400K+
crazy2.gif
for the Toyota, or CRAZY bucks for the Mercs/Stuttgarts, then so be it.
smirk.gif


In fact, all the better to him, as he thinks it PROVES his status/wealth/"appreciation for the 'finer' things in life" snootiness, despite pimps, crack dealers, and uneducated 'ballerz' buying the same exact rides every day.
So much for elitist 'exclusivity'.
lol.gif


That being said, I gave up on the mainstream car rags, and ANYTHING they had to say, a LONG TIME AGO!
 
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.

My 2006 GTO FTW.



Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
crazy.gif


lol no kidding...


Uhhhhhhh... How is it "not in the same ballpark"?

GTO 0-60 is 3.9 Seconds & stock top speed is 175MPH.

I could easily get 195-205MPH out of my GTO.

So, how is that "not in the same ballpark"?

Show me data, not both of your prejudices.
lol.gif


...and I stand by my original statement: "You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money."

That is true.
 
The Camaro was the third fastest car on this track.
It was also the twelfth most expensive.
The whole point was that the Camaro could stomp a bunch of more expensive cars on a road course.
None of the much more costly cars from the German brands could keep up.
This is "no match" in my book.
If we claim to judge cars based upon actual performance and not personal perception, the Camaro is a pretty remarkable value.
 
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.

My 2006 GTO FTW.



Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
crazy.gif


lol no kidding...


Uhhhhhhh... How is it "not in the same ballpark"?

GTO 0-60 is 3.9 Seconds & stock top speed is 175MPH.

I could easily get 195-205MPH out of my GTO.

So, how is that "not in the same ballpark"?

Show me data, not both of your prejudices.
lol.gif


...and I stand by my original statement: "You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money."

That is true.



Its not in the same ball park because it wasn't even based off of GMs own design but Manaros v platform and wouldn't hold a candle to the Maro in handling or over all performance.
 
Probably a good thing that C&D didn't bring a Corvette ZR1 to VIR.
The Lexus would have been relegated to third place, and the Ferrari might have found itself second.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Probably a good thing that C&D didn't bring a Corvette ZR1 to VIR.
The Lexus would have been relegated to third place, and the Ferrari might have found itself second.

Ya that would have been interesting.
 
The last Chevy I owned was a 2.8 V-6.
I'm not really a fan and have no interest in something like either the Corvette or the Camaro.
Not my kind of cars.
Still, I do enjoy seeing relatively inexpensive American iron humble far more costly Euro stuff, with both better power and better track manners.
Certainly entertaining.
 
Nice numbers. But how fast you can go is not the be all.

I would take a mid 90's 911, let alone a new one, before I would take the new Camaro.

German engineering > Everything else

28.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: Turk
You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money.

My 2006 GTO FTW.



Please. Not even in the same ballpark.
crazy.gif


lol no kidding...


Uhhhhhhh... How is it "not in the same ballpark"?

GTO 0-60 is 3.9 Seconds & stock top speed is 175MPH.

I could easily get 195-205MPH out of my GTO.

So, how is that "not in the same ballpark"?

Show me data, not both of your prejudices.
lol.gif


...and I stand by my original statement: "You can get a 2005-2006 GTO and have all the fun, destroy other cars on the road for way less money."

That is true.




My coworker is a GTO fanatic. Has a bone stock 2004 (5.7LS1), 2006 (6.0L) and another 2004 that is major modified (6.2L crate engine with cams etc)and he races that one. His statement is that no stock GTO ever ran 3.9 to 60 nor can hit 175mph. With mods yes, but not stock as I think you were saying.

But awesome cars, nonetheless!!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Nice numbers. But how fast you can go is not the be all.

I would take a mid 90's 911, let alone a new one, before I would take the new Camaro.

German engineering > Everything else

28.gif



Right.
I guess slower equals better engineering?
 
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
I wish they threw the GT-R into the mix.


I hadn't thought of this car, but it would have been neat to see.
My personal opinion is that it would have placed behind the 911 and the Mercedes, but maybe ahead of the Mustang (what the Shelby really is) based upon its ability to put power down alone.
I don't think it would have been a serious challenger to the Camaro.
 
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