Chengdu J-20 Stealth Fighter

[Merkava_4]

From what I've been reading about it, it's supposed to cruise at 3 times the speed of sound
without the use of afterburners; have a range double of our YF-22, and carry more weapons.

 

[river_rat]

Well the west's problem has always been cost politics.
By the time everybody gets their input in a fighter development, it has capabilty to to everything, and excel in nothing in particular. The price tag goes through congress time and time again, and by the time they end up getting approval to build 1/4 of the originally planned number, it is 10 years obsolete.

 

[TTK]

Not ready for production today, or in the near future. Read more detail Here

 

[webfors]

Nice looking plane. Let's see if they can roll it out anytime soon... doubt it.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
From what I've been reading about it, it's supposed to cruise at 3 times the speed of sound
without the use of afterburners; have a range double of our YF-22, and carry more weapons.

Yeah, and I'm sure it'll be delivered straight to their doorsteps by the Fifth Generation Stealth Fighter Fairy.

I sincerely doubt China will actually be able to build something that can compete with the F-22 until the F-22's successor is in the air. The idea that they will have something vastly more capable in the near future strikes me as absurd.

Now, if they made something similar to an SR-71 -- i.e. huge, not very stealthy by today's standards, and not maneuverable -- then all those attributes you listed would be a little more plausible. But it's highly questionable how useful such a plane would be, and it still seems far beyond what China could accomplish in the near future.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
From what I've been reading about it, it's supposed to cruise at 3 times the speed of sound
without the use of afterburners; have a range double of our YF-22, and carry more weapons.


Not a chance.

Mach 3 causes substantial airframe heating, that heat is more than any RAM (Radar Absorbent Material) can handle...why do you think the SR-71 was principally titanium? A Mach 3 cruise speed would also require a different airframe shape than this thing has (need to keep the airframe inside the shock cone...)

Range is a function of fuel fraction and efficiency and the F-22 has exceptional range....they're not going to be able to double the fuel fraction or achieve a significant improvement in engine efficiency...

More weapons? Maybe, if they give up internal fuel (and decrease range dramatically) or if the weapons are carried externally, where they increase the radar cross section...

It's a prototype, not even close to being ready for production...and casting an experienced eye on the design...the F-22 drivers have nothing to worry about from the production version...

Don't believe everything you read...

 

[Cujet]

Aviation is an interesting field. Those making unrealistic claims can easily be dismissed, without much effort I might add. It's quite simple really, lift, weight, thrust and drag must all be in equilibrium in cruise flight. This "wonder fighter" might be able to supercruise. It might be able to achieve M2, it might be able to go long distances and it might be maneuverable and stealthy.

Remember, engine technology will only allow just so much thrust per unit of fuel consumed. Airframe technology will only allow just so much drag at a given speed. Modern components have a given weight and that weight must be suspended indirectly by power.

It took some serious effort to go Mach 3. Those constraints have not changed. Going that fast still requires skin capable of withstanding temps over 500 deg F !! The skin needs to be able to expand too. Then there are the fuel and engine requirements. Inlets with a method to provide subsonic airflow to the engine are needed. They have a distinct look. When ever you hear of a "revolutionary" breakthrough in aviation technology, remember that it's already been tried and found lacking.

Huge gains in efficiency, power, capability and so on are just not possible without revolutionary technology.

 

[Familyguy]

I'll chime in with the fact that historically, Chinese aircraft have extremely short overhaul intervals, and dodgy reliability. Like most things in China (lived and worked there for years), things are built to pass initial inspection...with little thought to long-term service life or quality.

Not only will an F-22 or F-35 driver have little to fear, but I suspect an F-15/16/18 pilot would likely be more than a match too.

Best,

 

[Audi Junkie]

No exhaust shrouding.

 

[river_rat]

It may not be "all that" but be careful, as the US has historically, each and every time, taken the comfortable position of under-estimating potential enemy's hardware.
Remember those "primitive" Japanese amd the Zero?

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
It may not be "all that" but be careful, as the US has historically, each and every time, taken the comfortable position of under-estimating potential enemy's hardware.
Remember those "primitive" Japanese amd the Zero?


Look, no one is underestimating this thing - it should have good high-aplha handling (Delta wing and canards) and will likely have good weaponry.

But it is not a 5th-generation fighter, plain and simply, the airframe is not stealthy...it's more a good 4th-generation fighter...

The Zero was a great airplane and better in most measures of performance than the Wildcat...but it was beaten by better training and tactics that maximzed the Wildcat's speed and better armor...

Once the Hellcat and the F-4U Corsair came along, the Zero was simply outclassed in every sense...

Cheers

 

[dkryan]

If we ever "go to the mat" with the Chinese, our difficulty will not be from the likes of the J-20, but rather, from the overwhelming number of aircraft they send at us at one time.

Forgot the level of sophistication (or lack thereof) they may possess. Even if most of what they attack us with is an A-4 Skyhawk equivalent, you have to kill each one of 'em, otherwise, one or more will get through our aerial defenses and place their anti-ship weapons "center stage" for a performance evaluation.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

The Zero was a great airplane and better in most measures of performance than the Wildcat...but it was beaten by better training and tactics that maximzed the Wildcat's speed and better armor...

Once the Hellcat and the F-4U Corsair came along, the Zero was simply outclassed in every sense...

Cheers


They could still turn inside but couldn't match the dive or power of the Hellcat and Corsair

Japanese ace Saburo Sakai didn't think much of the Wildcat, Airacobra, or Warhawk but thought better of the Hellcat and Corsair. And admitted that against the Mustang and P38 , the Zero was outclassed

 

[Spazdog]

I've been hearing for years how the Soviet/Russian aircraft are superior to US planes.

Like how the MiG 29 Fulcrum manuevers better than an F-15 Eagle.

Fact of the matter is that the F-15 has a 104-0 air combat record. Something like 11 of those are MiG 29s.
The MiG 29 reportedly has scored 8 kills. Mostly against other MiGs and Sukhois

Then they will bring up the MiG 21 vs the Phantom. Different era. The F4 was proof that if you put a big enough engine on a brick it will fly. Things might have been different if the F4 had been fitted with a cannon And Vietnam's best ace was shot down by a US Navy F4 Phantom (he was flying a MiG 17 instead of a Fishbed but I digress

I don't think that cobbled together Communist Chinese fighter will fare better than the current Russian planes.

 

[unDummy]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
From what I've been reading about it, it's supposed to cruise at 3 times the speed of sound
without the use of afterburners; have a range double of our YF-22, and carry more weapons.


It can't fly. And, its range is a couple hundred yards of taxiing. An 18-wheeler with wings could carry more weapons but what good is it? I wasn't impressed.

But, it did what it needed to do. Make us fear and want to hand out more contracts and develop a 'generation 6, 7, or 8' fighter NOW. Maybe we'll build more F22's and F35's and refurb our aging fleet. Even the F23 was pretty cool. Build some of those too.

China doesn't need to fire a single shot or use overwhelming numbers to conquer the world. They have $3 trillion in their bank account and are bailing everybody out. All they have to do is strategically think with resources. Economic conqueror!

 

[Spazdog]

Even if it does everything it's supposed to do, the Chinese pilots will still have to contend with Electronic countermeasures and counter-countermeasures, air combat data link, the AWACS or Hawkeyes knowing exactly where they are, and the fact that they will not see the F22 until the weapons bay doors are open....and that's too late.

 

[j_mac]

I get the impression that this thing is more about theatrics than anything else. Why on earth would they allow something like this be known and PHOTOGRAPHED by yahoos? Its probably a conventional airframe underneath with an applique of copycat outer panels based off of our YF-23 and F-22. It looks like 1960's jet exhausts. What kind of radar absorbing material does it have? Who knows.

My point is that it is some sort of political statement meant to play psycological war. But I don't really know what their goals are.

On the other hand, If it is a REAL plane with a specific design goal, based on what we can see in the "spy photos" taken by yahoos...
It could be a stealthy aircraft carrier killer. Looks like they did a good job copying the F-22 frontal silhouette. The unstealthy rear would not be important in this role. Its big. This would make it capable of carrying VERY large anti shipping missiles.
This would be China's next military objective because any confrontation in the near future (over N. Korea or Taiwan) would entail the US bringing carrier fleets off its coast In order to settle them down. They would like to have the capability to sink carriers if need be. Looks like the only purpose this plane could have.
But I think its a "smoke and mirrors" exercise.
Gonna take the Chinese a LONG time to catch up with Lockheed. And like someone else mentioned, when they finally think they have our technology copied, we'll be into the NEXT generation of fighters.

Don't forget The F-22 is a 25 year old design. I'd say we've got a little something else on the drawing board. Maybe if they get it copied in the next 10 or 15 years then they'll have a 40 year old design on their hands.

But I dont see them equalling the F-22 even in 15 years.

Go figure.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Don't worry about the US carriers. They'll be all right.

If you managed to sink one the Navy's response would be unreal!

 

[dkryan]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Don't worry about the US carriers. They'll be all right.

If you managed to sink one the Navy's response would be unreal!


If you sank a carrier, with or without the aircraft onboard, what ultimately would the Navy respond with? The USS Iowa?

Submarine launched missiles, probably, but any carrier based attack would be iffy. The U.S. would park their remaining carriers far enough away to create a refueling nightmare for any airborne strikeforce.

The Chinese aren't going to sink one or more carriers, then declare victory. They'll have plenty of aircraft in the air, both for attack and for air defense.

And don't rest your laurels on technology. You can't honestly believe the Chinese would sit idly by and not go full force with some form of netcentric warfare and electronic countermeasures, do you?

Technology can be a game winner, but over reliance on it, as we learned in Bosnia, can be a nightmare.

 

[unDummy]

Any response would bring the end. And, with the current regime, we'd just cave in to the 'accident'. What was the response to the USS Cole and USS Liberty? The bargaining table! How many billions in aid do you want to place nice?

The only was to reduce the risk of this disaster is to immediately control trade, rebuild our manufacturing base and the mining base, and by not being dependent on a single source for imports.

If the price is right, maybe we should be a few hundred of those Chengdu J-20.