Checking torque on Lugnuts

[JHZR2]

I always recheck the torque on my Lugnuts after removing a wheel. I'm probably doing it wrong because generally I just snug them up again, and since I use the same torque setting they don't actually move. So the wrench just clicks, really only indicating that the bolts have not backed out at all.

That's great but I suppose really torque is a dynamic measurement, so it's not really accurate if the bolt does not turn at all.

I realize that in reality more or less none of the population checks this after the shop replaces their wheel. To do it correctly really I would loosen all of the lug bolts and then torque them back in a dynamic fashion, correct?

Is there a correct protocol to do this?

 

[Jimmy9190]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
To do it correctly really I would loosen all of the lug bolts and then torque them back in a dynamic fashion, correct?


This is exactly how I do it just as soon as I get back home from any shop that has R&R'd my wheels for any reason. Usually it is after I get my tires/wheels balanced.

 

[RonH]

I always torque my own wheels to spec and this definately means loosen the lugs slightly, then torque. I never recheck them after the initial torqing, but it doesn't hurt and as you thought,the correct way is to loosen, then torque.

 

[gathermewool]

I always check them dynamically, unless it's a double-check a couple of weeks after I initially torqued them, as a verification. I do this after having work done, because, more often than not, they've been over-torqued if any one else but me does it. My wife's lugs were so bad after getting new tires that I wasn't able to get them off, even while standing on the lug wrench! Needless to say, a dangerous situation were she to have a flat and tried changing the tire.

After re-reading your first paragraph, I'm not so sure I understand it fully. You're checking after some one else has already tightened them down or after you do? If it's you, then are you saying that you snug the nuts down prior to using a torque wrench, and when you check afterward with a torque wrench it immediately clicks?

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
it's not really accurate if the bolt does not turn at all.


Right.

If the bolt doesn't turn when you use a torque wrench, then it was over-tightened.

I'd like to start using the term 'minimum torque indicating wrench' because it tells you nothing about the actual state of the fastener - only that it is tightened to AT LEAST to the value the wrench is set. It could be 1, 10 or 100 ft-lbs tighter, you do not know.

I usually just run mine up barely snug with the electric impact by freewheeling the lug bolt home, then use a proper torque wrench for actual tightening.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: scurvy


If the bolt doesn't turn when you use a torque wrench, then it was over-tightened.

.


Not necessarily. My question really pertains to checking after I have done the initial tightening. I installed the wheels and use my electric gun just to get the bolts snug. Identifying them to spec using a torque wrench.

The question pertains to when I recheck after 50 miles or so.

Say I set the bolts to 88 pound feet. 50 miles later if I check them again to the 88 pound feet, the wrench is not going to tighten them any further and of course they're not going to move but they are not over tightened.

So I suppose the question really becomes, if I initially tighten them properly using the torque wrench, do they need to be loosened and retorque them after some distance???

My impression, perhaps wrong, is that the bolts can loosen with some driving and therefore need to be retorqued because of this possibility. If the consensus is that properly torquing them to begin with is sufficient then I will not be worried about it.

 

[doitmyself]

JHZR, newbies should learn to use the search function before posting. What's your excuse?

I've been waiting ten years here to use this classic rude answer. Glad I could use it on someone with a thick skin and sense of humor (I think).

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1837604&page=1 (note your participation in this thread)
Kestas:
Quote:
I wonder how most people here retorque their lug nuts. Most people retorque them improperly. To properly retorque lug nuts, they must first be backed off, then torqued in a fluid motion until the torque wrench reached the proper value. Proper torque is achieved with the nut moving because static friction is always higher than sliding friction.


And, from this TireRack article: http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107

"When installing new wheels you should re-torque the wheel lugs after driving the first 50 to 100 miles in case the clamping loads have changed following the initial installation. This is necessary due to the possibility of metal compression/elongation or thermal stresses affecting the wheels as they are breaking in, as well as to verify the accuracy of the original installation. When rechecking torque value, wait for the wheels to cool to ambient temperature (never torque a hot wheel). Loosen and retighten to value, in sequence. Simply repeat the same torque procedure listed above."

And, finally:
Originally Posted By: scurvy
If the bolt doesn't turn when you use a torque wrench, then it was over-tightened.

Not necessarily. A nut could be 10 ft. lbs. under torqued, but friction,burrs, etc. could cause the "break away" torque to be much higher. Break away torque would be the force required to overcome the inertia (seizing) from friction, corrosion, burrs, etc..


The literature seems to indicate that loosening can be an issue with new wheels, and is more of an issue with alloy wheels vs. steel wheels. The prudent thing would be to re check them initially and as you get more comfortable with your particular circumstances, there may be no need to always retorque them. I imagine that the lawyers are behind some of these recommendations.

 

[KeithKman]

I loosen all the lugs and then torque to 155 ft lbs on my Tahoe. A week later I check again but don't loosen the lugs as I know they are 155 or close to that.

Having the lugs at the same torque setting helps keep the brake rotors from warping funny I have found.

 

[stephen9666]

If the lugs were torqued by me, so I knew they were done properly, I would just set the torque wrench to the proper torque again and go over them all after 50 miles. If they don't move, that just means they didn't loosen. Checking for lugs that have become loose is the whole point, isn't it?

If you loosen and check them after 50 miles, then you'd better loosen and check them again after 50 miles, then you'd better loosen them and check them again after..........

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I always recheck the torque on my Lugnuts after removing a wheel. I'm probably doing it wrong because generally I just snug them up again, and since I use the same torque setting they don't actually move. So the wrench just clicks, really only indicating that the bolts have not backed out at all.

That's great but I suppose really torque is a dynamic measurement, so it's not really accurate if the bolt does not turn at all.



It's actually not that accurate if the bolt does turn, either, since what you're really measuring it breakaway torque, not tightening torque. There are methods to calculate tightening torque from breakaway torque, but you're not on an assembly line tightening 2,000 fasteners a day--so just do it the easy and most precise way: loosen the bolt past the breakaway point and re-torque.

I also check the lug nuts whenever someone touches my car. When I was a kid my brother lost a front wheel on the highway after having tires put on. He didn't get hurt, but that lesson stuck with me. Scary stuff.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
JHZR, newbies should learn to use the search function before posting. What's your excuse?

I've been waiting ten years here to use this classic rude answer. Glad I could use it on someone with a thick skin and sense of humor (I think).

I hear ya... But after my last run-in with seized lugnuts, Im rethinking the whole process... Especially since anti-seize will likely come into the situation and my process will change...

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
If the lugs were torqued by me, so I knew they were done properly, I would just set the torque wrench to the proper torque again and go over them all after 50 miles. If they don't move, that just means they didn't loosen. Checking for lugs that have become loose is the whole point, isn't it?

If you loosen and check them after 50 miles, then you'd better loosen and check them again after 50 miles, then you'd better loosen them and check them again after..........


My thoughts exactly, which is why I re-opened this and the anti-seize discussion...

 

[pcoxe]

What about incremental tightening? For example, making a first pass at 30#, a second pass at 60#, then the specified torque @ 90# on the final pass.

 

[Falken]

Back off the nut with a BREAKER BAR (never use a torque wrench for grunt work, only setting a torque).

Set the torque wrench to half of the final torque value to "level" the rim to the hub, then set the torque wrench to the final torque value and click it in a criss-cross or star pattern, or use the skip a nut technique (what I use it is fast and you don't have to think).

Spin down the torque wrench to the minimum value but not below as it may take it apart. Store it in the provided plastic case.

You drop a torque wrench or get the thing to "pop" by forcing on it too much, and the torque wrench needs to be calibrated again.

Having two torque wrenches is good to double check that it isn't loosing it's calibration. If you doubt a torque wrench don't keep tightening. Stop. You can shear off a stud. Sometimes they stop clicking when out of calibration.

Or, you can avoid all this hassle and get a beam-style torque wrench. Which I should do.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Falken
Back off the nut with a BREAKER BAR (never use a torque wrench for grunt work, only setting a torque).


I get how to do it right...

The question becomes if lug bolts/nuts loosening is a real problem. Ive never once encountered it.

If somebody with a big impact gun shoots them on, I can see removing and resetting...

But if done right the first time, is lug loosening a real issue?

Again, I have never seen it, and 99+% of the motoring public gets them applied however the shop applies them, and then goes driving at 90 MPH until the next time they are at the shop...

 

[JZiggy]

This doesn't really address your question, but have you considered looking into aftermarket lug nuts that either have a locking mechanism or a torque indicator? (Or drill every lug for cotter pins!!)

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
A nut could be 10 ft. lbs. under torqued, but friction,burrs, etc. could cause the "break away" torque to be much higher. Break away torque would be the force required to overcome the inertia (seizing) from friction, corrosion, burrs, etc..


Yet another reason to use a dab of anti-seize on your lug bolts.

In any case, you and JHZR have made my other point quite nicely - unless the bolt moves (is now in the range of dynamic torque and have overcome static friction) you have no idea to what value the lug bolt/nut was actually tightened.

Considering that the overwhelming majority of cars on the road today don't have the lug bolts/nuts touched between visits to the tire shop, if you torqued them once to the proper value I would not worry about it.

 

[surfstar]

You're doing this with as little weight on the suspension as possible, right?

Back wheels I can torque in the air with the parking break. Front wheels get snugged, then lowered so tire touches but doesn't hold too much weight, then final torque.

Weakest point in my process is probably the 1/2 HF tq wrench, but after years of DIY, I can feel its in the same range as its always been.

 

[Vikas]

If you can rotate the tires periodically (like 6months or year) the bolts most likely will come off without much struggle.

 

[RonH]

Putting antiseize effectively goofs up any hope of correct torque as torque specs are for a dry bolt, but chances are even using antiseize if you're over torqing by 25% you're still closer than 95% of the population. Has anyone actually torqued lug nuts and 50 miles later found them looser than where you set them initially? I doubt. Just set dry nuts and studs to spec torque and no more worry till 5 or 10K miles down the road when time to rotate.

 

[The Critic]

In the past, I would finger tighten the lug nuts in the air, then lower the car and fully tighten to 80 ft-lbs with a torque wrench. After a drive around the block, I would recheck the lug nut torque and find that the lug nuts would sometimes need a bit more tightening.

However, ever since I began installing the lug nuts in the air with a torque stick, I have no longer had the issue. While it is quite possible that my monster impact gun is way overtightening the lug nuts, I think the real reason is that fully tightening the lug nuts in the air allows the wheel to seat properly.