Changing the oil without the filter?

[tdi-rick]

Pablo, I'm just as anal.
When I bought my Land Rover, I used an oil flush and disconnected the engine oil cooler lines and seperately flushed it before dumping nice new clean D1 in the sump.

FWIW, lots of vehicles leave filters in place. our turbo diesel Nissan Patrol service schedule calls for 5 000km oil changes, with 10 000km filter changes. At least it uses two filters, one full flow, one (OEM) by-pass. The new common rail turbo diesel Land Rover use calls for the centrifugal filter to be changed every oil change (20 000km), and the full flow every second change (40 000km).

I was just trying to point out the erroneous thinking of a new filter giving more efficient filtration.

Rick.

 

[JustinH]

My fords use a 820-s motorcraft filter. This is a 2.99 filter, and I change it with every oil change, no exceptions.

 

[tdi-rick]

here's a link to an interesting thread with some interesting postulations from a couple of BITOG regulars.

web page

Rick.

[ May 31, 2004, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: tdi-rick ]

 

[TallPaul]

I guess if you cut open your filters and they look relatively clean, then why not run them two OCIs, but I would still pull them off and drain the old oil out. On my pickup the filter media was 100 percent black---could not see light throught it--after 4000 miles. I surely will change this one every OCI.

 

[Eddie]

Several years ago VW, Chystler and another majore manufacture did filter studies and from that data they determined that as filters age they filter better (up to a point). Using that real world data they determined that changing the filter every other oil change is better than every oil change. When I worked for Abbott labs we discovered the same phomommina. Filter have a distrabution of "hole or pore sizes". Surprisinging the larger holes or pores clog up early in the filters life leaving the small pore size to do the best job. In addition: your are not leaving bad oil in the filter by not changing it as oil and filter sellers try to push on us. Ed Hayes

 

[Spector]

Okay, the fleetguard test concluded that UOA is not a good indicator of filter performance. Did I miss something or did they have any statements that said what are good indicators of filter performance? Seems to me like they are saying hey, don't judge my filter or any filter based upon your UOA, can't be done, but I cannot tell you how to judge one either, and by the way, mine are the best so use mine!

The more and more we debate oil, filters, UOA etc, it seems that we are chasing our tail, perhaps it comes down to just good luck when an engine goes 200,000 miles since oil quality, filter quality results of UOA all may be nothing more then a chance indicator in the scheme of things!

 

[davefr]

Interesting thread. I've been tempted to do every other year filter changes on my TT Supra since I only drive it 2-3k mi/yr.

I'd be surprised if there's a car made with a worse oil filter location. You need to either get up from the top by removing the battery or go from underneath and remove a chassis bracket and use just the right combination of filter clamps, ratchets, extensions. It usually consumes a roll of paper towels in the process.

 

[S2000driver]

quote:

---

Originally posted by davefr:
Interesting thread. I've been tempted to do every other year filter changes on my TT Supra since I only drive it 2-3k mi/yr.

---

If I'm reading my Honda owner's manuals correctly, you can change your oil filter every other oil change, or every year, whatever comes first.

This makes me wonder whether or not oil filter materials deteriorate over time due to the nature of engine oil and chemical contaminants.

Therefore, I've decided to change my oil and filters every December, and since I use synthetic on all three cars now, I will be changing the oil and filter together each year.

I like the December timetable because I want to have the least restriction during hard winter starts.

 

[Dr. T]

I've done this when doing short OCI's (1-3k mi.) and wanting to try another oil grade of the same brand. For eg. when switching to M-1 15-50 from the 0-40 after 2k mi., I saw no reason to use another $22 BMW filter. Likewise, when switching from Syntec 5-50 to the 5-40 recently.

 

[Primus]

Apparently in certain conditions it would have sense to change the oil filter every other oil change. From another side, here in Europe many car and oil lab specialists say the opposite: you may extend your oil interval using high quality (read brand) synthetic oils, but it's always necessary to change the oil filter as it's prescribed by your car manufacturer or even earlier. Think both views has right for the existance. I use the first approach only for the winter storage: I change the oil and filter 1 month before placing the car into garage and change the oil in spring 1 month after a full wake up: during winter time I make a very short trip (around the garage

) every 3 weeks. In this case I don't see a real issue with oil filter. But what to do with my 5500 km intervals at other time. Till now I changed the filter every oil change cause of low quality gas (if not to say lousy), dusty roads, high speed driving etc. At the same time Honda filters made by Purflux are very expensive here: $ 14-18 (though the quality is outstanding, just look at chevron pleating http://www.filtrauto.com/epurfl.html). The oil is not cheap too. Charges are really too high even for my passion: it would be cheaper to kill than to nurse. Still lucky that there was no yet a single complaint about it from my wife. So, I would not be against to reduce the cost without an impact on the car, if it's possible. But think I shall hardly come to a conclusion without your help. Any idea ?

 

[Ron]

Hi, I just recall my VW BUGs in the 60's with NO filters,and changing oil every other weekend.It was a good time to adjust the valves!
Now, with my Ford Focus,and 1-2K intervals, I'll pass on the hard to snatch Filter every other time.It's OK to get lazy and still sleep nights.

 

[TC]

"Several years ago VW, Chystler and another majore manufacture did filter studies and from that data they determined that as filters age they filter better (up to a point)."

Yeah, the old K&N theory. I'd bet that most all paper and similar filters perform better as they collect debris, up until the point when flow becomes hindered. Simple enough -- a paper or synthetic media filters down to a certain micron rating. But add subsequent layers of "dirt" to same, and you then have dirt prefiltering dirt before particulates can even reach the paper, removing both more stuff as well as smaller particles. But I'd guess that this enhanced performance has little impact on service protocols, with much more weight given to 1) the determination that a given filter is less than half-spent after one oil change interval, and 2) the marketing attraction of reduced filter change-out. A brand new filter should filter just fine without a need to be "enhanced" by dirt loading.