changed to Amsoil ATF, now tranny is slipping?

[Doug]

Put on a deeper sump pan and switch to Amsoil(still didn't get all the atf, some was left in the t/c).

Now, when I take off from a stop, every once in a while(1 in 10?) I hit the accellerator and my engine revs, but I'm not in gear. all of a sudden, it'll kick in gear and will go. NExt time I stop, it doesn't do that. I'm wondering if it's something I did?

Doug

 

[T-Keith]

I've heard from some companies that rebuild transmissions that a PAO based ATF can cause slipping. Not sure if there's anything to it though.

You said you installed a deeper sump. What kind of transmission is it. On many transmissions a deeper sump means you need a different filter to pick up at the bottom of the pan.

-T

 

[1kickbuttranger]

May need more fluid for the deeper sump.

 

[c_rossman]

I would add another qt, Just to see if it makes a difference. Running a little more fluid is better than not enough. What type of tranny?

 

[Mike_dup1]

What kind of vehicle, how many miles on it? Was there any problems with it before the switch?

With the deeper sump, could it be possible the filter and pickup are not in correct position and its sucks air instead of fluid?

I installed the Asmoil ATF in my 2004 GMC and have had no problems what-so-ever. My friend has had the same fill in his 1996 Chevy 4x4 since 1996, snowplowing and 125,000 miles of flawless operation. On a side note, several guys he knows with similar trucks in use plowing snow have had transmission failures but they were not running synthetic oils.

btw-I had it done by local trans professionals.

 

[Ray H]

Check the fluid level per your owner's manual's instructions. If it reads low on the dipstick (which may have happened if you refilled with the same volume you drained after installing the deeper pan), there's your problem. Get on this sooner rather than later - sucking air can damage your trannie.

 

[JohnBrowning]

As much as I hate Amsoils "Universal ATF" I can not say that I know anyone that has had a problem with it in a transmission that Amsoil recomends it in. I have seen it used in Toyota spec.'ing DEX II,III GM products useing Dex II and III and even Dodge transmissions requireing ATF+3 and ATF+4.

I like to play it some what safe and use products specific to an application over "Universal" type fluids.

When you put a deeper pan on you either need a longer filter like what most 4x4 app.'s use or an extension to postion the stock filter properly inthe new pan. Some filters are even held in place by the contact they make with the bottom of the pan!!!

What is the application? Any problems prior to changeing ATF?

 

[Doug]

It's a PML pan I got at www.dieselperformanceparts.com

The truck is a 1997 Ram 2500 V10 , I believe it's the 47re transmission.

I'll check the fluid level again. I put about 20 miles on it and checked the fluid and it was fine. But, it could have gotten lower...

Thanks!

 

[Doug]

Also,

To answer other questions,

No previous problems at all in the past, only getting a little warm(210) while towing. That's why I went to a syn. and deeper sump.

Also, in regards to the filter, Mark Craig at www.dieselperformanceparts.com said that my truck doesn't need the extension. I think I might just be a quart or so low? The filter stuck down slightly into the pan, so maybe it just needs more fluid?

Thanks again,

Doug

 

[Pablo]

Just a normal change over to synthetic ATF will not cause "slipping", but what you have doesn't sound like slipping as in all the time clutch material not binding sufficiently, it sounds more intermittent than fluid/friction issue.

I'm not sure how you have been checking the level, but it does sound as the others say that you may be marginally underfilled or have some pick-up difficulties. I would add a qt and see if the situation improves.

 

[outrun]

Have run both Mobil 1 Dexron-Mercon III ATF, Amsoil Universal ATF on high mileage cars and never ever had a slippage problem.

Did you replace the pan filter?

In the Mobil 1 case the pan was changed and cleaned and 15 qts were infused via a T-tech service. 1 bottled of Auto-RX was added to previous fluid about 4k prior.

The AMSOIL was used to replace the 1500mile break in ATF in a Jasper Remanfactured 4T40E transmission. After member advice I no longer worried about the "universal" spec of Amsoil ATF.

The only problem with Mobil 1 I noticed was that evening the transmission acted funny.

Then next day it was perfectly smoothed out and normal.

Online reading suggested that it took 24hours for the Mobil 1 additives to leach out the and replace the old stuff in the clutch packs hence the weirdo feel?

 

[Mike_dup1]

Do I understand you to say you added a deeper pan but did not add more ATF to compensate for the increase in capacity? Did instructions come with the pan explaining that you had to add more fluid?

Deeper pan = more fluid needed. Dipstick should tell you that, unless that has to be replaced also? Don't know, never had the need to change out a trans pan. Anytime you alter from stock, problems can arise that were not envisioned.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:
...Dipstick should tell you that, unless that has to be replaced also?...

---

No, no, no. The orignal dipstick will read just as accurately with the deeper pan. The dipstick is held by the fill tube - its relationship to proper safe fluid level hasn't changed. Only the fluid level, itself, will have changed after refilling if Doug refilled with a like quantity to what was drained. If the fluid level is now lower, the intake tube may no longer be immersed in fluid at all times. I would NOT throw another quart of ATF in until I could establish with the dipstick what the actual working level of the fluid is. Follow the owner's manual instructions on checking fluid level. Overfilling an AT is at least as damaging as underfilling. The latter sucks air due to insufficient filling. The former churns air into the fluid because of overfilling. In both cases, air being delivered to the mechanicals is the problem because it's a terrible lubricant.

 

[keith]

When I put Amsoil "Universal" into my Chrysler it slipped like crazy. Retraining the transmission didn't help at all. Drained it all out, put new ATF+3 back in, no problems since and that was 60K+ miles ago.

Amsoil told me my transmission must be defective and try an additive to fix their "universal" ATF. They didn't say which additive because they hadn't tested any and didn't sell any. I did try Lubegard and it did help, but that proved to me that the Amsoil ATF is not suitable for my transmission and I dumped it immediately.

Very bad experience - stay away from FRAUDULENT claims of Universal ATF fluid. One fluid can not have different friction properties in different transmissions.

Will Amsoil be selling "Universal" motor oil next? One oil that is whatever viscocity your engine needs? If that sounds stupid, don't put "Universal" fluid into your transmission.

 

[Mike_dup1]

I figure this will rile up Keith so here goes.

quote:

---

AMSOIL Universal ATF chemistry has been separately tested against each auto manufacturer's specifications and meets all of the requirements for each. It can, therefore, be used in all applications specifying those requirements. The unique, and more advanced, chemistry of this lubricant allows it to meet the proper frictional characteristics for Ford MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, Chrysler ATF+ through ATF+4, Allison C-3, C-4, and Caterpillar TO-2 and TO-3 specifications.

---

For what I understand, Amsoil is not the only manf to sell a universal fluid but I must admit I know very little on who they are. I base that on what the tran shop owner told me when he converted my 2004 GMC K1500 to Amsoil last summer.

[ December 18, 2004, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[Pablo]

Keith had this issue several years ago. In the meantime there are many happy Chrysler (and Ford and GM) folks with Amsoil ATF in them.

I'm not sure why he leaves out the facts on defective Chrysler transmissions.

"Fraudulent" is a strong word. Too strong in my opinion. The rest of his garbage is his opinion which he is entitled to, but has zero to do with FACT.

Doug - how is your tranny now?

 

[keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
I'm not sure why he leaves out the facts on defective Chrysler transmissions.

---

60K miles MORE on my "defective" transmission. Shifts perfect now.

Stay away from fluid that "meets" the requirements of widely varying specifications. I'll be back in line when universal motor oil is in the stores

Isn't this thread and site about user experiences? Sorry if mine are negative towards Amsoil ATF, but it didn't work for me and why risk it for a few bucks when a transmission rebuilt is thousands?

If you don't like my advice, don't take it and move on. Have a nice one.

 

[Ray H]

It seems there are two classes of posters on BITOG:

> those who attempt to share their real-world experiences in the hope of saving fellow posters time, money, and grief, and...

> those who attempt to slavishly follow the various agenda-driven commercial party lines and quote chapter and verse about how some miracle after-market fluid meets all manufacturer specifications all the while ignoring the uncomfortable little fact that the manufacturer specifications often involve closely guarded information.

Where ATs are concerned, I've found it's generally cheaper and more reliable in the long run to go with the manufacturer's recommendations. Their design engineers usually know the product better than niche chemists attempting to backward engineer to something approaching an acceptable fluid.

 

[Pablo]

Thanks Ray - real world experience with every car I've put Amsoil ATF in has worked great.

 

[1sttruck]

Recommending a universal ATF, whether it's Amsoil or some other brand, buys into at least three assumptions:

The OEM, in this case Chrysler, doesn't really know what it's requirements are, and their need for creating a new ATF is groundless.

Universal ATF makers have tested their product on all makes, and have confirmed that their product is at least as good as the OEM recommended product.

'The universal ATF didn't break my tranny' is the same as 'the universal ATF will perform as well as the OEM rcommended product over the expected life of the car'.

I don't buy into those assumptions, and have settled on having to buy Mercon, Mercon V, and AFT +4 (I think that's all the right specs) for my vehicles. I also use Lubegard red in two of them, which seems to be one of the few (only ?) ATF additives which has at least some OEM approvals.