Changed My Brake Fluid and...WOW.

[The Critic]

My Saturn has always had a very soft brake pedal. This made it difficult to brake smoothly. I did a vacuum bleed using a compressed-air operated Vacula last year, but it didn't seem to help. After a flush/bleed with the Motive Power Bleeder, the pedal has firmed up considerably. The difference in pedal feel is day and night compared to before.

Hands down, the Motive Power Bleeder is simply the best way to flush and bleed your brake system IMHO. With the vehicle specific adapter (#1108 for me) and the unit pumped up to 20 psi, I was able to flush all 4 lines in under 8 minutes. Also, I've found that it works even better if you continuously hit the caliper HARD with a three pound rubber mallet while fluid is draining. When I repeatedly hit the caliper while it was draining, I could see small air bubbles coming out. Those bubbles would not have come out if I did not hit the caliper with a mallet.

Point is, it was well worth the $92 that I spent for the bleeder and the three adapters (1100-European, 1101-Universal and 1108-GM). I would highly recommend this product to my fellow BITOGers and as it's definitely a must have tool for any DIYer!

http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/...nt=IMG_1228.jpg
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/...nt=IMG_1229.jpg
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/...nt=IMG_1231.jpg
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/...nt=IMG_1230.jpg
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/...nt=IMG_1232.jpg

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Do the wheels have to come off using this thing?

If not, where does one go about getting one?

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

Does this suck new fluid in through the bleeder or push the old fluid out of the bleeder?

 

[Thingfish]

Critic, I cannot tell, does that system separate the pressurized air from the reserve brake fluid?

 

[mechtech2]

It looks like the master cylinder was not bled right from the factory. When we replace them, some are easy to bench bleed, and some are stinkers. Tapping is a great way to break the surface tension and let any bubbles break free.
If your pedal was never right, there was air in the system from the beginning.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Thingfish
Critic, I cannot tell, does that system separate the pressurized air from the reserve brake fluid?


The MP bleeder does not have a diaphragm to separate the fluid from air.

 

[Thingfish]

Bummer. From another Subi driver, thanks.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Do the wheels have to come off using this thing?

If not, where does one go about getting one?

You'll have to remove the tires in order to access the bleeder screws.

Originally Posted By: 2002 Maxima SE
Does this suck new fluid in through the bleeder or push the old fluid out of the bleeder?

You can use it with or without fluid. The unit simply pressurizes the system. If you fill the bleeder with fluid, it will pressurize the system and keep it topped off.

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
It looks like the master cylinder was not bled right from the factory. When we replace them, some are easy to bench bleed, and some are stinkers. Tapping is a great way to break the surface tension and let any bubbles break free.
If your pedal was never right, there was air in the system from the beginning.

It has always felt so-so. I could almost swear that doing the vacuum bleed made it feel WORSE.

Originally Posted By: Thingfish
Bummer. From another Subi driver, thanks.

I don't think it's an issue. I could be wrong, but I think air intrusion into the fluid would only be an issue if you were pressurizing the system a lot. If the Motive bleeder was forcing air into the fluid, I think I would notice it by now.

 

[eljefino]

Nice tip on the tapping. I can just mentally picture the satisfaction of the burst of bubbles.

 

[bruno]

No need to . Put the car on ramps for easy access .

 

[gtx510]

$92 seems like a good price for the bleeder and 3 adapters. Where'd you get'em?

 

[Thingfish]

Originally Posted By: Stoptech
Pressure bleeding do's and don'ts

Pressure bleeding on its own is not necessarily a bad thing, but there are several steps one must take to ensure that the bleed event will result in an air-free brake system.

When we talk about pressure bleeding, we are referring to the process in which we pour our brake fluid into a pressure vessel, hook up a pressure source, and run the now pressurized fluid directly into the master cylinder reservoir. One by one the caliper bleeder screws are opened to allow the pressurized fluid to flow through the system until all of the old fluid has been purged. Simple, right?

Well yes, but beware of imitations – not all pressure bleeders are created equal. The professional units (the type you can consider using) separate the pressurized brake fluid from the pressure source (air) using a flexible rubber diaphragm. In this fashion, the pressurized air is kept from forcing its way into the fluid. As we all know, air and fluid should be kept as far apart as possible.

This brings us to the imitations. There seem to be a rash of products available lately that claim to be pressure brake bleeders at a fraction of the cost of the professional units. Like most things that sound too good to be true, well, it’s exactly that.

Like the professional units, these imitations contain a pressure vessel into which new brake fluid is poured. However, in order to pressurize the fluid, an integral pump handle is cycled to build the pressure inside the vessel without any measures taken to separate the pressurized air from the fluid. For those of you who have ever bought a $19.95 do-it-yourself potted plant and bug sprayer from Home Depot you get the idea.

Of course, having pressurized air in contact with the brake fluid will certainly force the fluid through the system just as effectively as the high-zoot professional unit, but as an added bonus we are stuffing air into the brake fluid at the same time. Talk about an unwanted surprise!

While it may not be visible to the naked eye (air can actually entrain itself in the fluid as to be visually undetectable) it’s there right along with all of the nasty moisture trapped inside of it. This of course begs the question: if you are stuffing air and water contaminated fluid into your brake system, why even bother bleeding it in the first place?

Naturally there will be those who argue that the amount of air in question is not important enough to worry about, but think about this for a moment: nearly every automotive manufacturer stores their bulk brake fluid in large containers which are subjected to a constant VACUUM. Talk about an expensive process! If just storing your fluid under regular atmospheric conditions isn’t good enough to keep air and water out, just imagine what shoving 30psi worth of compressed air on top of it is doing.

The professional units can cost hundreds of dollars, and for good reason; unfortunately the cost keeps them beyond the reach of most of us normal folks. Your best bet is probably to get back in the driver’s seat and begin stroking the pedal with your foot again, but ultimately the choice is yours.

 

[sunfire]

Its a very nice machine... But which brake fluid did you use?

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Thingfish
Bummer. From another Subi driver, thanks.


As long as you don't store the fluid in the bleeder, the lack of a diaphragm is not a problem. If air was being forced into the fluid, you would end up with a soft pedal, and I haven't heard of that happening after using the MP bleeder.

 

[crinkles]

can you just put a sheet of clingwrap over the fluid surface? to minimise fluid surface exposed to air...

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I've found that it works even better if you continuously hit the caliper HARD with a three pound rubber mallet while fluid is draining. When I repeatedly hit the caliper while it was draining, I could see small air bubbles coming out. Those bubbles would not have come out if I did not hit the caliper with a mallet.


Since when do you follow my advice?

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Thingfish
Critic, I cannot tell, does that system separate the pressurized air from the reserve brake fluid?


Uhm, how exactly do you think air will get into the fluid when you pressurize the pressure bleeder?

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
As long as you don't store the fluid in the bleeder, the lack of a diaphragm is not a problem.



Why would you want to store brake fluid in the pressure bleeder? You simply guess how much brake fluid you will need for a flush, then add that amount plus a little extra. Brake fluid doesn't cost that much. When you are done you dispose of the leftover fluid and clean out the pressure bleeder.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: gtx510
$92 seems like a good price for the bleeder and 3 adapters. Where'd you get'em?

I bought it off Ebay from a vendor named "cbmtools."

Originally Posted By: sunfire
Its a very nice machine... But which brake fluid did you use?

Prestone DOT 3 from Walmart.

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Thingfish
Bummer. From another Subi driver, thanks.


As long as you don't store the fluid in the bleeder, the lack of a diaphragm is not a problem. If air was being forced into the fluid, you would end up with a soft pedal, and I haven't heard of that happening after using the MP bleeder.

Exactly. If the pressure bleeder forced air into the fluid, it would've made my pedal feel worse.

 

[Thingfish]

Considering how bad your pedal seemed to be, any change would feel better.