Champion, Champ, and Service Champ

Interesting thing is, Champion Labs is still building their designs (Ecore, combo valves,etc.) and Fram is still building theirs. I’ve been tempted to use the Champ made Ecore VO-88/PH48 combo valve filter in my Express since they seem to flow really well, and I could use a little more oil pressure. Sub $2 at Rock Auto too, a case of 12 is under $35 shipped w/tax.
I've noticed that kind of pricing on Champ filters too. Whether it's Rock Auto's sub-$2 pricing, or from other sellers that price higher but offer "free shipping," mid-$30s for a case of 12 is easy to find. From what I've seen on this forum, the Champ-branded filters are at least as good as other-branded Champion Labs filters in the retail channel, so why are they so much cheaper?

Maybe this is what Champion Labs does with any excess production capacity after they've filled their OEM orders; just keep production rolling and turn out Champ filters to sell to jobbers at low (or zero) markup, rather than idle their plants and lose the economies of scale that come with higher production.

If that's so, then those of us who buy them for personal use at those prices are beneficiaries of that quirk in production economics. Rare that those benefits would trickle down to actual consumers. :D
 
Wait, I'm not sure I understand this.

If filter B is more restrictive than filter A, wouldn't switching from A to B cause higher pressure before the filter and lower pressure downstream? And wouldn't the converse also be true if switching from B to A?
No, because pressure at any given point in the system is dependant on the oil flow, oil viscosity and the flow resistance down stream of that point.

The part that most people don't understand is that the positive displacement oil pump is moving the same oil volume, regardless of the other factors like viscosory and flow path resistance. If it moves 5 GOM at 4000 RPM, then it's going to move 5 GPM at 4000 RPM regardless if you are using thin or thick oil. Since thick oil is more resistive to flow, the pressure has to go up to move that same 5 GPM. And it will go up because the PD will still force that same 5 GPM at 4000 RPM.

If an oil pressure sensor is located after the filter, then the filter flow resistance doesn't matter because of the PD oil pump. The pump will still force the same flow, and if the flow is say 5 GPM at the sensor then it will show the same pressure even if the filter is more restrictive. If the reststance becomes so great that the PD goes into pressure relief, then that's the only time a super restrictive (ie, very clogged up) filter would effect the oil pressure.

The oiling sytem in an engine is not the same as the water system in a house.

As a thought experiment, imagine filter A as the hypothetical ideal filter that adds no restriction at all (delta-p of zero, I guess you would say), and filter B as a completely blocked filter, delta-p of . If you switch from A to B, the pre-filter pressure goes up, but the post-filter pressure goes down (to zero). Conversely, if you switch back to A, the pre-filter pressure will drop, and the post-filter pressure will increase.

Wouldn't it be logical to expect the same sort of result, though not as pronounced, with less extreme differences in delta-p? What am I missing?
You are describing the senario I mentioned above when the PD goes into pressure relief. A very clogged filter is a rare occurance. And making a PD oil pump hit pressure relief is hard to do unless you do a very cold start-up and rev the engine to near redline, something not recommended. And even if the pump did hit pressure relief, there is still lots oil going to the engine - It's not totallt starved. The oil pressure will max out at whatever correlates to the pump pressure relief setting.

The reatively small difference in delta-p between new filters isn't going to able to be seen on an engine with the oil pressure sensor located after the filter. If it was locatrd before the filter, and you had an accurate digital oil pressure gauge, you might see a +/- 2 or 3 PSI between new filters. The engine oiling system after the oil filter is about 15 times more flow restrictive than most new oil filters are.
 
No, because pressure at any given point in the system is dependant on the oil flow, oil viscosity and the flow resistance down stream of that point.

The part that most people don't understand is that the positive displacement oil pump is moving the same oil volume, regardless of the other factors like viscosory and flow path resistance. If it moves 5 GOM at 4000 RPM, then it's going to move 5 GPM at 4000 RPM regardless if you are using thin or thick oil. Since thick oil is more resistive to flow, the pressure has to go up to move that same 5 GPM. And it will go up because the PD will still force that same 5 GPM at 4000 RPM.

If an oil pressure sensor is located after the filter, then the filter flow resistance doesn't matter because of the PD oil pump. The pump will still force the same flow, and if the flow is say 5 GPM at the sensor then it will show the same pressure even if the filter is more restrictive. If the reststance becomes so great that the PD goes into pressure relief, then that's the only time a super restrictive (ie, very clogged up) filter would effect the oil pressure.

The oiling sytem in an engine is not the same as the water system in a house.


You are describing the senario I mentioned above when the PD goes into pressure relief. A very clogged filter is a rare occurance. And making a PD oil pump hit pressure relief is hard to do unless you do a very cold start-up and rev the engine to near redline, something not recommended. And even if the pump did hit pressure relief, there is still lots oil going to the engine - It's not totallt starved. The oil pressure will max out at whatever correlates to the pump pressure relief setting.

The reatively small difference in delta-p between new filters isn't going to able to be seen on an engine with the oil pressure sensor located after the filter. If it was locatrd before the filter, and you had an accurate digital oil pressure gauge, you might see a +/- 2 or 3 PSI between new filters. The engine oiling system after the oil filter is about 15 times more flow restrictive than most new oil filters are.
Thanks for the explanation! Learned something today.
 
I've noticed that kind of pricing on Champ filters too. Whether it's Rock Auto's sub-$2 pricing, or from other sellers that price higher but offer "free shipping," mid-$30s for a case of 12 is easy to find. From what I've seen on this forum, the Champ-branded filters are at least as good as other-branded Champion Labs filters in the retail channel, so why are they so much cheaper?

Maybe this is what Champion Labs does with any excess production capacity after they've filled their OEM orders; just keep production rolling and turn out Champ filters to sell to jobbers at low (or zero) markup, rather than idle their plants and lose the economies of scale that come with higher production.

If that's so, then those of us who buy them for personal use at those prices are beneficiaries of that quirk in production economics. Rare that those benefits would trickle down to actual consumers. :D
Marketers target different demographics with similar product... Champion Labs will manufacture a a filter, and slap many different private label stickers on them, including their own. They know that some consumers shop by brand recognition, others by price point. If a certain model of filter costs $0.75 to manufacture, they can sell it for $8.99 if they paint it orange, $15.99 if they paint it purple, $6.99 if it is blue and says AC-Delco, $3.69 if they plaint it blue and call it SuperTech, and $1.49 if they paint it white and slap their own label on it.

Some consumers have never heard of a Champ, and figure $1.49 is too cheap so it must be garbage and, they grab the orange one they know. Others grab the blue one that the owners manual recommends. Some buy a ST or Champ because they are savvy, others buy those simply on price point.

**I made up random prices simply to illustrate my point.

The manufacturer has captured several segments of the market with one product, and can lower their own production costs through economies of scale.
 
Marketers target different demographics with similar product... Champion Labs will manufacture a filter, and slap many different private label stickers on them, including their own. They know that some consumers shop by brand recognition, others by price point. If a certain model of filter costs $0.75 to manufacture, they can sell it for $8.99 if they paint it orange, $15.99 if they paint it purple, $6.99 if it is blue and says AC-Delco, $3.69 if they plaint it blue and call it SuperTech, and $1.49 if they paint it white and slap their own label on it.
Champ Labs only makes filters for other sellers under their name brand (like SuperTech for example) when they are contracted do so. And the price is decided by the people selling their brand. Champ Labs don't decide on their own to just crank out a bunch of filters and slap different brand lables on the can. And each contracted filter line may have it's own design specs. Fram and WIX/Purolator/M+H does the same thing when they make filters for others sold under their own brand.
 
Good luck getting the people in charge to fix anti trust issues, this is the same government that broke up AT&T only then let it slowly regroup and is now essentially three even worse companies.
Only the best that money can buy (filters that is)!
 
My theory is-even a slightly more restrictive filter (i.e. a metal center tube, synblend media) is going to flow at least a little less than a wider open ecore or full syn media ecore filter can flow. Assuming a somewhat worn system, on an engine known for questionable oil pressure originally. Now, I put my HV Melling pump in, with the high pressure pump relief spring, with a new oil pickup, oring, oil pan gasket, etc., I'm sure pressure will be higher. I'm just too lazy (& busy at work) to tear it all apart at the moment, so stopgap measures are considered...
 
My theory is-even a slightly more restrictive filter (i.e. a metal center tube, synblend media) is going to flow at least a little less than a wider open ecore or full syn media ecore filter can flow. Assuming a somewhat worn system, on an engine known for questionable oil pressure originally. Now, I put my HV Melling pump in, with the high pressure pump relief spring, with a new oil pickup, oring, oil pan gasket, etc., I'm sure pressure will be higher. I'm just too lazy (& busy at work) to tear it all apart at the moment, so stopgap measures are considered...
Flow through the oil filter and oiling system should be the same because of the positive displacement oil pump. If the pump puts out 5 GPM at 4000 RPM, then it's going to put 5 GPM at 4000 RPM as long as the pump is healthy and not in pressure relief. The only time an oil filter can effect the flow volume to the engine is if the oil filter makes the oil pump hit pressure relief. And that can really only be done if the filter is totally clogged, and the bypass valve in the filter is way too small to flow the volume the pump it putting out and makes the pump output pressure spike above the pump's pressure relief setting. Basically a rare combination of events need to happen for the filter to actually reduce oil flow to the engine.

If your oil pump is worn out, etc then it's the engine's oiling system flow resistance that's causing the low oil pressure - or air getting sucked past the oil pick-up tube O-ring. As mentioned before, the engine oiling system is typically 15 times more flow restrictive than the typical oil filter. And even with a somewhat worn out oil pump, you won't see any oil pressure difference between new filters because the oil pressure sensor is located after the oil filter. The oil pump is not going to be in pressure relief with hot oil regardless of what oil filter is installed. And the pump volume output vs engine RPM won't change if one filter is +/- 2 or 3 PSI different than another filter. The pump would have to be barely working if a few PSI difference in the oil filter resistance made the oil slip past the rotors within the pump were that sensitive to effect output volume.
 
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Unfortunately, I’ve had an SBC that had oil pressure issues, and it took some experimenting to find out a combination that got hot idle oil pressure high enough. I’m just not ready to run 20W50 & STP in a newer LS yet, but it may get some dual rated 5W40 or 15W40 in the near future. Like I said above, I’m just looking to lose my lifter tick, numbers on the gauge don’t mean anything as long as it’s not throwing codes for low pressure.
 
Champ Labs only makes filters for other sellers under their name brand (like SuperTech for example) when they are contracted do so. And the price is decided by the people selling their brand. Champ Labs don't decide on their own to just crank out a bunch of filters and slap different brand lables on the can. And each contracted filter line may have it's own design specs. Fram and WIX/Purolator/M+H does the same thing when they make filters for others sold under their own brand.
I did leave out those minor details. But it's implied that a manufacturer doesn't set the retail price themselves. They still have contracted prices with their customers. The point is that they know how to target their markets, and increase revenues through economies of scale.
 
Here is a Service Champ filter. The ad alludes to the fact they are made by the leading manufacturer of private brand and OE filters. I believe that is Champion Labs. This photo shows 6 holes in the base plate. The other examples of Champion Labs built filters had 8.

View attachment 95464
These filters above were a champion labs filter, use them for years at work we dealt with service champ for these and L&D for Valvoline filters which is also champion labs as well. Two identical filters, they both changed to the new E Core design I guess it was the early 2000s. If I remember, correctly..
 
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