Ceramic brake pads

[jeepman3071]

I've been doing brakes for a couple years on my own vehicles as well as family and friend's cars. This is the first time I've used ceramic pads on my 2000 Cherokee. They are Hawk Performance ceramics, and have been on there about 6 months. The rotors were also replaced with new rotors from NAPA at the same time. The pads were bedded in according to the directions. The stopping power is much better than OEM brakes and I'm very pleased with them. They have been whisper quiet until a few weeks ago. Lately they are either whisper quiet or squeal loudly.

Everything looks good upon inspecting them. Is this normal with ceramic pads? Is there something I can do to make them squeal less? I'd really hate to take them off since they work so well.

 

[09_GXP]

They shouldn't squeal at all. Try making a few hard stops to get everything nice and hot to ensure good material transfer.

I use the Hawk HP+, a much more aggressive pad, pads on my Solstice and they begin to squeal if driven gently for a couple days. Once I go to an autocross they quiet right down.

 

[Corvette Owner]

Did HAWK give you anti-squeal compound to put on rear of pads? They did for my HAWK HPS pads.

I used DELCO Ceramic pads on my Corvette. They did not dust much, and the dust was white. Had to take them off early, they stopped poorly and warped my rotors.

I then went to HAWK HPS pads, they are great ! Stop great and dust little (more than ceramics though).

 

[SteveSRT8]

It's important to note that "ceramic" has become a marketing buzzword. The pad may be 99% something else and just 1% "ceramic".

Pads don't warp rotors. Usually they simply create deposits welded into the face of the rotor that cause the familiar vibe we know as 'warp'.

If your pads are noisy they may need bedding. Many people have good luck with 'anti squeal sauce' applied to the back of the pad.

 

[mechtech2]

If you let a brand new rotor sit on the shelf, it will remain true . With use, they can and do warp. Pad contact when braking is one reason why.

I'd make sure the shims [if any] are on the pads, and I have had great success with anti squeal sauce on the back of the pads. Assemble wet, and press the pedal to seat the puck through the sauce. Don't let it dry first.
Brake squealing is the #1 brake complaint . It happens. Ceramics pads are not a known cause chronic cause, any more than others.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Hawk Performance Ceramics are the absolute worst brake pads I have ever installed on a vehicle.

I bought the Hawk ceramics after an excellent experience with a couple sets of HPS pads on my Miata. Going on my daily driver (a Subaru), I thought I'd give their ceramics a try. They made more noise than the HPS, they dusted more than the HPS, and they chewed through a set of rotors, something I've never had happen with HPS.

Honestly, if I hadn't seen the box and part numbers when I installed them, I would have expected these pads to be HP+ based on their everyday performance.

If you're looking to replace the Hawk's and still want a ceramic pad, I'd suggest Wagner ThermoQuiet Ceramic a try. They have become my new go-to for ceramics.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
It's important to note that "ceramic" has become a marketing buzzword. The pad may be 99% something else and just 1% "ceramic".

Pads don't warp rotors. Usually they simply create deposits welded into the face of the rotor that cause the familiar vibe we know as 'warp'.

If your pads are noisy they may need bedding. Many people have good luck with 'anti squeal sauce' applied to the back of the pad.


Agree, "warped rotors" is usually excessive thickness variation caused by excess run out of the rotor at initial assembly and then being driven for a few thousand miles. And corrosion and deposits from the pad lining material on the rotors that's in turn usually caused at least partially or worsened by excess runout. Squeeling is usually due to pads vibrating and cleaning and lubing the pad contact areas can help. I'm more of a believer of light brake use over time smoothing and quieting brakes vs a harsh rebedding. I don't think it takes much to bed in street pads and that should happen with even normal and gentle stops after pad replacement.

 

[Joe72Mart]

"Agree, "warped rotors" is usually excessive thickness variation caused by excess run out of the rotor at initial assembly and then being driven for a few thousand miles. And corrosion and deposits from the pad lining material on the rotors that's in turn usually caused at least partially or worsened by excess runout.[/quote] Squeeling is usually due to pads vibrating and cleaning and lubing the pad contact areas can help. I'm more of a believer of light brake use over time smoothing and quieting brakes vs a harsh rebedding. I don't think it takes much to bed in street pads and that should happen with even normal and gentle stops after pad replacement.[/quote]"



I've done the same procedure as mechanicx. Just a slight amount of hi temp brake lube on pad contact areas can solve many squealing problems.

Joe

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Hawk Performance Ceramics are the absolute worst brake pads I have ever installed on a vehicle.

I bought the Hawk ceramics after an excellent experience with a couple sets of HPS pads on my Miata. Going on my daily driver (a Subaru), I thought I'd give their ceramics a try. They made more noise than the HPS, they dusted more than the HPS, and they chewed through a set of rotors, something I've never had happen with HPS.

Honestly, if I hadn't seen the box and part numbers when I installed them, I would have expected these pads to be HP+ based on their everyday performance.

If you're looking to replace the Hawk's and still want a ceramic pad, I'd suggest Wagner ThermoQuiet Ceramic a try. They have become my new go-to for ceramics.


How do the Wagners perform? I'm not so concerned with the pads being ceramic as I am with braking performance. The factory brakes sucked on my Jeep, and it has drums in the rear.

Also, the pads didn't come with any anti-rattle clips or "squeal sauce". I thought it was strange since most have the clips in the box, but figured Hawk didn't include them. This is my first experience with Hawk products.

 

[Greaser]

I have the exact vehicle with hawk ceramic pads.The hawk pads are not the issue,they work great,the rotors get glazed from stop and go use.Take them on a good highway run and stop hard.By the way have the same set-up on my other jeep and love 'em.I go off-roading with both Jeeps.Moose hunting with the XJ and deer hunting with the TJ.Lots off up and down braking ,slow and fast braking in mud,snow,rain everything works great with the Hawk Ceramics!Have about 3 years and 60,000 miles on my last brake jobs and the XJ is due soon.Will install the Hawk pads again.You could also have a lazy caliper that's not returning properly,age and dried out pins do this,check to make sure your calipers are sliding on the knuckle.

 

[K20FA5]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer


How do the Wagners perform? I'm not so concerned with the pads being ceramic as I am with braking performance. The factory brakes sucked on my Jeep, and it has drums in the rear.


I just put a set on the front of my wife's Pilot this past weekend. So far, I'm impressed. Just as quiet as the OEM Honda pads, but much better pedal feel and very smooth stops.

They were a good deal too. Ordered from RA along with the MIR of $10, not bad at all.

 

[jeepman3071]

Thanks for the info on the Wagners maybe I will look into them.

Greaser, is there anything I can do to prevent the glazing? Slotted rotors maybe? Almost all of my driving is around town. I am only on the highway a few times a month.

 

[Corvette Owner]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Thanks for the info on the Wagners maybe I will look into them.

Greaser, is there anything I can do to prevent the glazing? Slotted rotors maybe? Almost all of my driving is around town. I am only on the highway a few times a month.


Slotted rotors do tend to keep the pads even and prevent deposits. They may shorten life of pads slightly.

 

[cadfaeltex]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Thanks for the info on the Wagners maybe I will look into them.

Greaser, is there anything I can do to prevent the glazing? Slotted rotors maybe? Almost all of my driving is around town. I am only on the highway a few times a month.


Slotted rotors do tend to keep the pads even and prevent deposits. They may shorten life of pads slightly.


On my Jag forum they shy away from slotted and/or dimpled rotors due to increased noise, had any problem with that?

 

[Greaser]

Glazing is caused by improperly bedded pads when new,stop and go driving to the point that you are almost riding your brakes in traffic,heavy towing etc.I use slotted rotors.I would use slotted and dimpled rotors but not cross-drilled (cracking around the holes and dirt packing due to mud seems to be a problem with other off-roading vehicles).My XJ has ATE rotors with Hawk Ceramics and never made any noise.Did have an issue after moose hunting with Napa Ceramics and Napa standard rotors.There was a minor highway squeal after heavy braking going downhill.The XJ is an auto-tranny and even in 4 low and 1st gear she would be going down too quick and had to brake alot.The AW-4 tranny would shift into 2nd gear whether I liked it or not.There is a way to fix this but for the amout of times I needed this it wasn't worth it for me.A few taps on the brakes at highway speeds would remedy the squeal,minor issue.My TJ has EBC slotted rotors and Hawk Ceramics and they work great and never made any noise,but this Jeep is a stick and in 4 low and 1st gear I can get out and walk beside my jeep in a steep downhill grade.Check your calipers!Mopar calipers get sticky on the guide pins and burn out pads,seen it happen many times.Easy to fix by the way.

 

[mechtech2]

Greaser -
Glazing is from improper new break in?
NOT.
Can't you see that brakes that are OK for 25,000 can 'glaze' at that time or later?
Pad deposition occurs from hard hot brake application. Street vehicles rarely attain this in normal driving. The material is wiped off much faster than it deposits [check Stoptech's articles].

 

[Greaser]

http://www.hawkperformance.com/truck/faq.php

 

[nleksan]

I have never noticed more noise from slotted brakes, one piece or two piece rotors, fixed or floating sytems, fwiw. I now use them exclusively as I prefer consistent pad surface and pedal feel and the pads (Stoptech ST for street) have maybe (maybe) a 5% reduction in life...