I would replace the O2 sensors first. More often then not it will correct the condition. Check with your mechanic on this.
Cats replacement price quote/options
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Also, wow, I'm glad I read this thread and learned about aftermarket cats. I had no idea that they were of less quality than OEM. Is it just that they have always been this way or have the OEMs had to beef up stock cats to meet the newer EPA longevity requirements?
wait, do we have real proof that we can make a blanket statement of "all aftermarket cats are worse than all OEM cats" ?
not arguing, I am honestly asking.
and yeah; I will ask the mechanic about starting off with the O2's first.
However, I do remember, when I had alldata account, that it said that, for this particular code (P0403 or something), that the technicians should not worry about it being caused by O2 sensors (ans that code really does mean the cat on this car), but I will have them rule out O2's first. (I will be replacing them regardless, as they're 120k miles old...where they get "lazy" I think)
not arguing, I am honestly asking.
and yeah; I will ask the mechanic about starting off with the O2's first.
However, I do remember, when I had alldata account, that it said that, for this particular code (P0403 or something), that the technicians should not worry about it being caused by O2 sensors (ans that code really does mean the cat on this car), but I will have them rule out O2's first. (I will be replacing them regardless, as they're 120k miles old...where they get "lazy" I think)
I talked to my Dad on this, and he's said they've had pretty good luck with the Walker line on pretty much all parts. I agree that the O2 sensors are problably the first logical thing to try. If you do need the cat replaced, that priced isn't so bad though.
If anything is effecting your performance and mpg, it's most likely your front O2 sensors. Replace them first. Lazy rear O2 sensors may also trigger the CEL. Check the front and rear sensors first before replacing the cat's.
Question for everyone: What do failing cat's effect other than emissions and CEL? They don't have any effect on mpg, power and performance...Am I correct?
Question for everyone: What do failing cat's effect other than emissions and CEL? They don't have any effect on mpg, power and performance...Am I correct?
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My car definitely feels bogged down since the infernal CEL came on and threw the code...
I don't mean to get this thread off topic but I have another question regarding the cat.
Can the cat get clogged due to using lower than recommended octane rating?
To the OP, what's the recommended octane rating and which do you use in your?
Can the cat get clogged due to using lower than recommended octane rating?
To the OP, what's the recommended octane rating and which do you use in your?
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recommended is 87,
I have been using 89 mostly and sometimes even 93 to get rid of some "pinging" the car has...
I have been using 89 mostly and sometimes even 93 to get rid of some "pinging" the car has...
found this on OBD-codes.com:
Causes
A code P0430 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:
* The catalytic converter is no longer functioning properly
* An oxygen sensor is not reading (functioning) properly
* There is an exhaust leak
Possible Solutions
First, inspect for exhaust leaks.
Next step is to measure the voltage at the oxygen sensor on Bank 2. In fact, it would be a good idea to test each oxygen O2 sensor
while you're at it.
Causes
A code P0430 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:
* The catalytic converter is no longer functioning properly
* An oxygen sensor is not reading (functioning) properly
* There is an exhaust leak
Possible Solutions
First, inspect for exhaust leaks.
Next step is to measure the voltage at the oxygen sensor on Bank 2. In fact, it would be a good idea to test each oxygen O2 sensor
while you're at it.
I'm in the process of instaling a direct fit Catco replacement catalytic converter in my Camaro. I haven't heard any bad things about Catco brand converters. I just need mine to pass NOx so I can register the vehicle again.
You can click here for a comparision price.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+303153+4294924744+4294908331+115+4294907842
You can click here for a comparision price.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+303153+4294924744+4294908331+115+4294907842
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Originally Posted By: 97tbird
recommended is 87,
I have been using 89 mostly and sometimes even 93 to get rid of some "pinging" the car has...
Maybe its pinging from a partly clogged cat. Restricted flow will raise your cylinder pressure. They have pressure gauges that screw in to the O2 bungs before and after the cat. These can tell if there is a restriction. The more restriction the higher the pressure at the O2 bung.
recommended is 87,
I have been using 89 mostly and sometimes even 93 to get rid of some "pinging" the car has...
Maybe its pinging from a partly clogged cat. Restricted flow will raise your cylinder pressure. They have pressure gauges that screw in to the O2 bungs before and after the cat. These can tell if there is a restriction. The more restriction the higher the pressure at the O2 bung.
But that pinging started when the car had about 80-85k miles...what would cause a cat to be clogged on such a "young" car, which has been well maintained? (afaik, that is. I got it used with 72k miles).
anyway, I sure hope that replacing of cats/O2 sensors improve things...
First thing I am gonna try after getting it done is try some 87 oct. again and see if the pinging still exists...
anyway, I sure hope that replacing of cats/O2 sensors improve things...
First thing I am gonna try after getting it done is try some 87 oct. again and see if the pinging still exists...
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
But that pinging started when the car had about 80-85k miles...what would cause a cat to be clogged on such a "young" car, which has been well maintained? (afaik, that is. I got it used with 72k miles).
Im dont know to much about them but i know there is more then one way to kill a cat.
Running to rich (bad O2, missfire) will cause the cat to overheat and have a melt down. Who knows what happened in that 1st 72K.
Arnt T-birds basically the same drive trains as Mustangs? They have o2 simulators for stangs that eliminate the rear sensors. That will keep the light off and then you could just hallow out the cats or get an "off road" pipe.
But that pinging started when the car had about 80-85k miles...what would cause a cat to be clogged on such a "young" car, which has been well maintained? (afaik, that is. I got it used with 72k miles).
Im dont know to much about them but i know there is more then one way to kill a cat.
Running to rich (bad O2, missfire) will cause the cat to overheat and have a melt down. Who knows what happened in that 1st 72K.
Arnt T-birds basically the same drive trains as Mustangs? They have o2 simulators for stangs that eliminate the rear sensors. That will keep the light off and then you could just hallow out the cats or get an "off road" pipe.
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Originally Posted By: 97tbird
But that pinging started when the car had about 80-85k miles...what would cause a cat to be clogged on such a "young" car, which has been well maintained? (afaik, that is. I got it used with 72k miles).
anyway, I sure hope that replacing of cats/O2 sensors improve things...
First thing I am gonna try after getting it done is try some 87 oct. again and see if the pinging still exists...
Pinging can be caused by a dirty MAF and fault ACT or ECT's.
If it's running insanely lean, it will cause it to ping. It can also cook the cats.
But that pinging started when the car had about 80-85k miles...what would cause a cat to be clogged on such a "young" car, which has been well maintained? (afaik, that is. I got it used with 72k miles).
anyway, I sure hope that replacing of cats/O2 sensors improve things...
First thing I am gonna try after getting it done is try some 87 oct. again and see if the pinging still exists...
Pinging can be caused by a dirty MAF and fault ACT or ECT's.
If it's running insanely lean, it will cause it to ping. It can also cook the cats.
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
wait, do we have real proof that we can make a blanket statement of "all aftermarket cats are worse than all OEM cats" ?
not arguing, I am honestly asking.
No... but if the aftermarket one is very cheap, there can't be much catalyst in it. Catalyst metals are very expensive. The big three are rhodium, platinum, and palladium. Let's take a quick look at spot prices...
Platinum: $993 / oz
Rhodium: $1150 / oz
Palladium: $195 / oz
More expensive than gold! ($856 / oz)
So how much catalyst is in a $50 or $100 cat? Squat. Well, enough to pass smog testing... once. After that...
OEM cats cost $1000 or more, because they have a big chunk of the good stuff. It needs to last beyond the warranty period. Aftermarket cats can be made the same way, but few people buy them since the price tag scares them off. They buy the $100 one and hope it lasts. And that's fine, if it just needs to hang together another year or two. You just need to decide how long you want this thing to last.
wait, do we have real proof that we can make a blanket statement of "all aftermarket cats are worse than all OEM cats" ?
not arguing, I am honestly asking.
No... but if the aftermarket one is very cheap, there can't be much catalyst in it. Catalyst metals are very expensive. The big three are rhodium, platinum, and palladium. Let's take a quick look at spot prices...
Platinum: $993 / oz
Rhodium: $1150 / oz
Palladium: $195 / oz
More expensive than gold! ($856 / oz)
So how much catalyst is in a $50 or $100 cat? Squat. Well, enough to pass smog testing... once. After that...
OEM cats cost $1000 or more, because they have a big chunk of the good stuff. It needs to last beyond the warranty period. Aftermarket cats can be made the same way, but few people buy them since the price tag scares them off. They buy the $100 one and hope it lasts. And that's fine, if it just needs to hang together another year or two. You just need to decide how long you want this thing to last.
My 98 Yukon had the inefficient flow CE light. I swapped all four O2 sensors and it didn't help. With 223,000 miles, it figures the cats had to be restricted.
The dealer part was 800 dollars. Walker listed for 780 or something like that... I got it for jobber for 358 including gaskets. Local guy installed it for 100 bucks.
Light went out, truck passed inspection and to top it off, it stopped detonating. Now we'll see how long they last. They're a little smaller than the factory cats, so it makes sense that they won't go as many miles before throwing a code.
A word of warning for those cheaper cats... The metals that go into a cat are expensive. A 130 dollar cat isn't going to have enough of them in it to operate properly. I would at least go with a Walker.
The dealer part was 800 dollars. Walker listed for 780 or something like that... I got it for jobber for 358 including gaskets. Local guy installed it for 100 bucks.
Light went out, truck passed inspection and to top it off, it stopped detonating. Now we'll see how long they last. They're a little smaller than the factory cats, so it makes sense that they won't go as many miles before throwing a code.
A word of warning for those cheaper cats... The metals that go into a cat are expensive. A 130 dollar cat isn't going to have enough of them in it to operate properly. I would at least go with a Walker.
I know people who bought used cats from junkyards... just don't expect a receipt. However, last summer precious metal was incredibly expensive and I know my yard was instantly sawzalling cats off of any vehicle that came in.
A few years ago I got a direct fit cat (my old one was rattling and failed inspection) for ~$60 and it came with a EPA-required lengthy warranty, I think 5 years 60k miles or so. Also had a disclaimer that if someone was trying to sell you this cat and your car was newer than ~8 years old and didn't have any other problems you should go after the OE manufacturer. Very interesting paperwork.
Depending on your exhaust design it may be pretty easy to open the flange behind the cat, if it puked its chips you'll find some back there. Some are content to shovel out the chips, poke around a bit, and reassemble.
A few years ago I got a direct fit cat (my old one was rattling and failed inspection) for ~$60 and it came with a EPA-required lengthy warranty, I think 5 years 60k miles or so. Also had a disclaimer that if someone was trying to sell you this cat and your car was newer than ~8 years old and didn't have any other problems you should go after the OE manufacturer. Very interesting paperwork.
Depending on your exhaust design it may be pretty easy to open the flange behind the cat, if it puked its chips you'll find some back there. Some are content to shovel out the chips, poke around a bit, and reassemble.
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