The two catalytic converters on my Acura cost more than $300 each. I'm very interested in making them last as long as possible.
Cat damage
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The two catalytic converters on my Acura cost more than $300 each. I'm very interested in making them last as long as possible.
Oooops...Gotcha, Jay..
I come from the perspective of $80.00 generics for my 105HP @5800 RPM Hyundai roller-skate..
Still and all, your engine is, what, three thousand to re-wrap the valve-train? Ah well, if Doctor Haas doesn't worry, who am I? Maybe we just don't need all the stuff anyway.
I come from the perspective of $80.00 generics for my 105HP @5800 RPM Hyundai roller-skate..
Still and all, your engine is, what, three thousand to re-wrap the valve-train? Ah well, if Doctor Haas doesn't worry, who am I? Maybe we just don't need all the stuff anyway.
Well, you cherry picked the data from ONE study so I don't consider your conclusion worthy of much consideration.
Some points to consider.
First, the use of a modified Selby-Noack Volatility Test is a bench test that measures Phosphorus volatility of formulated oils when exposed to prescribed amount of heat and air for ONE hour. This is not identical to the decomposition of ZDDP in an operating engine (see Fig 6 http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=477). The reason you still see Zinc in a used oil analysis is that much of the Zinc portion of ZDDP remains.
Second, while the survey conducted of oils showed no correlation between original ZDDP levels and the Selby-Noack Volatility Test PEI, they didn't conclude that if you doubled the levels of ZDDP for a particular formulation, you wouldn't double the PEI levels. In any case, as I already mentioned above, this is a ONE hour bench test.
Third, if Phosphorus poisoning of the Cat could be prevented with just a reformulation of the oil with a different form of ZDDP, don't you think the Lubrication and Automobile industries would of avoided all the time and effort they have to reduce ZDDP levels during the past 5 years? Most of that research in bibliography was conducted before GF-4/SM/CJ4 limits were considered, so if this paper has any validity, don't you think someone would of noticed?
Lastly, Savant has been known to be antagonist to ZDDP reduction. Could it be they have an ulterior motive? Possibly a lack of funds or will to find a ZDDP replacement? However, just like Fox news, I try to be fair and balanced and present all sides to inspire a deeper understanding of the topic at hand.
Ok, 427, it makes sense, ZDDP will degrade the cat.
Now, what I can't get an educated answer to is, do high Moly counts pollute a catalytic converter? And, if Moly is emissions equipment-safe, is there an additive that's pure moly? Havoline, a "conventional" oil rich in moly STILL has ZDDP after all, as does VSOT, a popular additive in these parts.
Where do you find a Moly-only add?
Now, what I can't get an educated answer to is, do high Moly counts pollute a catalytic converter? And, if Moly is emissions equipment-safe, is there an additive that's pure moly? Havoline, a "conventional" oil rich in moly STILL has ZDDP after all, as does VSOT, a popular additive in these parts.
Where do you find a Moly-only add?
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Cat and O2 poisoning from the P component of ZDDP? I'm guessing the big three had to replace a cat or two inside the warranty period, and found P on the substrate material during an analysis (we know ALL situations are managed by fact) and blamed the oil, without knowing the fuel used, what happened during refining/storing/dispensing, etc. There are examples above dynamically indicating that an enormous amount of burned oil passed through a cat, and it is still effective enough to pass an emissions test. I had a Villager, 210,000 on Rotella, no cat or emissions issues. I'll still add SLOB or VSOT as needed, or run an HDEO with no worry.
I'm guessing you didn't read any of the references above.
So you passed an emissions test, what does that actually mean? Maybe that there's enormous slack built into the test to begin with since you run the test when the engine is at operating temperature? Have that vehicle checked cold, under the same conditions the manufacturers are required to test, and you'd see how much your Cat has degraded.
Anybody using SLOB or VSOT in a modern engine design is throwing their money away.
Research is fine and dandy but were are all these vechiles with pluged up Cat's?????What oils were they running?????I think the whole debate is rather silly. I have never plugged up a cat and neither has any of my extended family!While not scientific at all I have never known anyone without an oil burner to plug up a cat. In almost every case I have seen or heard of the customer used the cheapest 5W30 they could find becasue the car burnt oil anyways. Now I am not saying that ZDDP and Phos. are good for a catalytic converter. I am saying that the hydrocarbons being pumped through the converter have to be at least as bad as the ZDDP since you would no doubt get even more ZDDP and Phos. into the engine with the excessive oil consuption. Most catalytic converters I would see would be blown out from carbon build up. The customer would come in telling use that they heard a loud explosion and then saw huge clouds of black smoke. The underside of the car or truck would be covered with carbon and the cat was usualy still holding some in it as well.
I also have to wounder why it has always been oil burners running on cheap 5W30 that seemed to have pluged up converters. I realise that my experinces might not match others but it does strike me as an odd coincidence(sp).
When was the last time that anyone on this site has seen a vechile that was well maintained with a clean engine and well operateing engine with a pluged up converter?
I also have to wounder why it has always been oil burners running on cheap 5W30 that seemed to have pluged up converters. I realise that my experinces might not match others but it does strike me as an odd coincidence(sp).
When was the last time that anyone on this site has seen a vechile that was well maintained with a clean engine and well operateing engine with a pluged up converter?
Just cause Honda doesn't use pushrods doesn't mean ZDDP doesn't matter. OHV engines are still in production and quite abundant in number. I honestly can't see the trace amounts of ZDDP plugging cats. It was the pellet design in older cats that did the plugging. If your car consumed enough oil that id does matter, you've got worse problems than an underperforming cat.
JB, I know you're smarter than your response here. No one is talking about plugged Cats. Th problem is Cats that loose their ability to perform the function for which they're designed through phosphorus poisioning.
And if you don't believe it happens on a regular basis, just Google "Catalytic Converters".
Here's a recent example on a well maintained car.
Try putting together an informed, coherent and logical argument if you are trying to make a point.
You really are a confrontational [censored].
What exactly didn't meet your standards oh wonderful King of Debate?
Jeez, Jeery, easy, don't pop a vasectomy clip! He didn't MEAN nothin!
Read what he posted and tell me it was warranted and not over-the-top aggressive.
That's 427..
But not overly personal.
I'm no mod, anyway, I should shut up now..
But not overly personal.
I'm no mod, anyway, I should shut up now..
I can't say I know of a moly only additive. Texas Refinery Corp. does however make two additives that have moly in them.
PRO-TECH ENGINE TREATMENT http://www.trclubricants.com/motoroils/p...entwithztm.html
MULTILUBE XKE http://www.trclubricants.com/specialtyoils/multilubexke/multilubexke.html
Or in my opinion I would just start with a Moly engine oil and eleminate having to put in the additive.
MOLY XL PRO-SPEC® III Synthetic Blend Multi-Viscosity
http://www.trclubricants.com/motoroils/m...iviscosity.html
PRO-TECH ENGINE TREATMENT http://www.trclubricants.com/motoroils/p...entwithztm.html
MULTILUBE XKE http://www.trclubricants.com/specialtyoils/multilubexke/multilubexke.html
Or in my opinion I would just start with a Moly engine oil and eleminate having to put in the additive.
MOLY XL PRO-SPEC® III Synthetic Blend Multi-Viscosity
http://www.trclubricants.com/motoroils/m...iviscosity.html
427, I don't see any reference to the car being well maintained. The miles put on the car were run up quickly, according to the post, but no maintenance records were divulged. Also, the check engine light was on for some time. Being OBD-II, the codes would indicate which O2 sensor failed, pre or post cat, but the post doesn't indicate. Cats do not fare well or long with excess, unburnt fuel passing through them from misfires, or tired O2 sensors that are slow to switch to lean.. they overheat, ruining the precious metals inside. Granted, all this is speculation, but one fact is clear from the report.. the car apparently used 1/2 quart of oil in it's 3831 miles.. where is the evidence that indicates the oil killed the cat?
Just a heads up, this statement does not work to your credit
Diesel;;
I like the Multi-Lube XKE, but they don't offer an avenue to buy it as an individual..
Anyone know if MolaKule is still around? His outfit still sells stuff like this, doesn't it? If he has all-moly, all the time, I'd buy it from him, he's a sponsor still, yes? No?.
Thanks!
I like the Multi-Lube XKE, but they don't offer an avenue to buy it as an individual..
Anyone know if MolaKule is still around? His outfit still sells stuff like this, doesn't it? If he has all-moly, all the time, I'd buy it from him, he's a sponsor still, yes? No?.
Thanks!
He's right here:
http://specialtyformulations.com/
http://specialtyformulations.com/
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