Castrol 20w-50 Syntec vs Others for Air-Cooled

[BytorJr]

Ok, I goofed on my first post, it's quite obvious that I should have dropped any mention of Porsche.

My question is and was and will be which has the most ZDDP. Castrol Syntec 20w-50, Vavoline VR-1 Synthetic, or Mobile 1 V-twin 20w-50.

And, with regard to the 20w-50 V-Twin...what ill effects may it have?

Simple. And CATERHAM, I KNOW that the first number is "startup/cold."

Also, the recommendations for Porsche are for the NEW models...NOT 80's, 70's, and 60s. Unless somebody can point me to a TSB regarding a 1985 Porsche 911 3.2L using 0w-50 or 5w-50, then I'm sticking with what ohhh, every 911 mechanic I've known and every 911 owner I've known uses: 20w-50. 911 are through the 1989 model year.

To answer where I found it. Advance Auto recently (buying oil for a friends Jeep and there it was). Ordered it from NAPA a few months ago, because I prefer most NAPA stores as they are more professional (at least in FL). They have NOT replaced it with anything to my knowledge and it still shows on their web site. I think they've dropped "classic car," but wouldn't swear to it.

So, to get back on topic. I don't care about anything but 20w-50. And my question is primarily about ZDDP levels for those oils. If not, I guess I'll stick to the Castrol 20w-50 Syntec for now.

Thanks.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
BytorJr - You said;
"Unless somebody can point me to a TSB regarding a 1985 Porsche 911 3.2L using 0w-50 or 5w-50, then I'm sticking with what ohhh, every 911 mechanic I've known and every 911 owner I've known uses: 20w-50. 911 are through the 1989 model year."

The Porsche TSB is No 1701 various years. I have attempted tp PM two of these to you direct

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: BytorJr
Ok, I goofed on my first post, it's quite obvious that I should have dropped any mention of Porsche.

My question is and was and will be which has the most ZDDP. Castrol Syntec 20w-50, Vavoline VR-1 Synthetic, or Mobile 1 V-twin 20w-50.

And, with regard to the 20w-50 V-Twin...what ill effects may it have?

Simple. And CATERHAM, I KNOW that the first number is "startup/cold."

Also, the recommendations for Porsche are for the NEW models...NOT 80's, 70's, and 60s. Unless somebody can point me to a TSB regarding a 1985 Porsche 911 3.2L using 0w-50 or 5w-50, then I'm sticking with what ohhh, every 911 mechanic I've known and every 911 owner I've known uses: 20w-50. 911 are through the 1989 model year.

To answer where I found it. Advance Auto recently (buying oil for a friends Jeep and there it was). Ordered it from NAPA a few months ago, because I prefer most NAPA stores as they are more professional (at least in FL). They have NOT replaced it with anything to my knowledge and it still shows on their web site. I think they've dropped "classic car," but wouldn't swear to it.

So, to get back on topic. I don't care about anything but 20w-50. And my question is primarily about ZDDP levels for those oils. If not, I guess I'll stick to the Castrol 20w-50 Syntec for now.

Thanks.


Porsche also specs 10W-60 for these engines.

I hear they like 5W-40 for everything along w VW and Audi now.

That said, id still use Syntec 5W-50 if i had one.

Only thing better than 5W-50 is 20W-50 if you let it warm up. 5W-50 flows faster.

Even 2007-2010 Ford GT specd 5W-50 so its not big bad oil. Rather, a thick oil with a purpose.

Of course new performance cars (some of them from same company) use 5W-20 now, so whats the deal?

And 944 Oil? as in 1987 S2?

EDIT Also sounds like using an xW-50 in an 80s PORSCHE is OK. Though they think 40 is better now.. Thick Oil once was in there, and it works great for some.

Tell me more about 10W-60, and why its in Porsches, BMW M3s (instead of 10W-30 as some say is fine) and Ferrari Enzo, FF. Previous years..

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
HangerHarley - You said this:
"Porsche also specs 10W-60 for these engines."

Not so! It is however used as a race oil by some 911 Owners

And:
"And 944 Oil? as in 1987 S2?"

M1 0W-40 works very well in these engines as specced in Porsche TSBs - as well as the others as 5W-40, and M1 5W-50

 

[Nickdfresh]

I would think Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage might also be a good choice, as it's SL rated with lots of zinc...

 

[JimPghPA]

The Castrol GTX High Mileage may have more ZDDP than the not for High Mileage.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
HangerHarley - You said this:
"Porsche also specs 10W-60 for these engines."

Not so! It is however used as a race oil by some 911 Owners

And:
"And 944 Oil? as in 1987 S2?"

M1 0W-40 works very well in these engines as specced in Porsche TSBs - as well as the others as 5W-40, and M1 5W-50



So you CAN put a 5W-50 in there if you want?

5W-50 should flow better than 20W-50 so Porsche obviously thinks its getting better lube until warmed. Air cooled heats faster and sounds awesome.

944 - Inline 4. HUGE though - 3.2L or better (EDIT heard Porsche made a 3.6 Liter once. That was obviously the six. Nevermind im all messed up on this, maybe drunk too.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_944 - OK My bad. 1987 is an "S" its 2.5L. I have a 1989. NICE 3.0L

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
HangerHarly - I mentioned M1 5W-50 as still being Listed in a previous Post here. This lubricant is not readily available in NA as I understand it. It is a very good lubricant with excellent flow characteristics and a sensible HTHS vis.

OT - The 944 had three different engine sizes in its life - 2497, 2681 and 2990. It stayed at 2990 into the 968 (last version @ 305hp). The engines variously shared much with the 928 V8.
They are still popular as a race car

My very good friend here has a 944S2 he purchased new - it is still in as-new condition at nearly 200kkms - with no engine issues

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
BytorJr you would do well to google Motor oil by AE Haas, and read it.


Dr Haas runs 0W-20 in Ford Expeditions. They dont spec that.

I have my doubts about Dr. Haas.


That's not a very nice comment to make about Dr. Haas.
And 20wt oil is spec'd for the Expedition.

The gist of what Haas says is true, but he is prone to exaggeration. Yes he runs a 0W-20 in some of his vehicles but what he doesn't emphasis is that the unigue bio-ester 0W-20 he's running has a HTHS vis >2.9cP which has the operational viscosity of a conventional 30wt oil. It is only through a loophole in the SAE grading system that RLI oil can be called a 20wt.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
HangerHarly - I mentioned M1 5W-50 as still being Listed in a previous Post here. This lubricant is not readily available in NA as I understand it. It is a very good lubricant with excellent flow characteristics and a sensible HTHS vis.


I like that "a sensible HTHS vis".
For those that don't know the HTHS vis spec' for M1 5W-50 is 4.21cP which is pretty typical for the grade. PP's 5W-50 which is available in NA has a HTHS vis of 4.29cP.
A presumably "unsensible" HTHS vis would be M1's 15W-50 which at 5.33cP is really getting very thick indeed although nowhere near as thick as a 20W-50 dino particularily at sub 100C temps.

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
HangerHarly - I mentioned M1 5W-50 as still being Listed in a previous Post here. This lubricant is not readily available in NA as I understand it. It is a very good lubricant with excellent flow characteristics and a sensible HTHS vis.


I like that "a sensible HTHS vis".
For those that don't know the HTHS vis spec' for M1 5W-50 is 4.21cP which is pretty typical for the grade. PP's 5W-50 which is available in NA has a HTHS vis of 4.29cP.
A presumably "unsensible" HTHS vis would be M1's 15W-50 which at 5.33cP is really getting very thick indeed although nowhere near as thick as a 20W-50 dino particularily at sub 100C temps.


When i think 5W-50 i think Castrol Cyntec HTHS. Heard its at 4.7 or so.

I do recall lessons from you, CATERHAM. Basically, "As thin as possible but as thick as necessary" so you dont believe the E46 BMW M3 needs the Castrol RS 10W-60?

And yes, M1 5W-50 isnt available here, 15W-50 is. I think understanding the HTHS = "Thickness" *Trumps KV, yes? - is key.

It is also true synthetics (Blends?) FLOW better... i have an oil with 30% Synthetic and its very thick, MaxLife 20W-50 is a thick one. Their 10W-40 is even thick too. More like a 50 than a 40! It is so thick, it makes the oil pressure higher in my car, where another brand makes it its right level.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
the Castrol lubricant as per the title of this Thread will have a HTHS vis. of around 4.8cP

Higher HTHS vis than the M1 0W-50 lubricant (4.21cP) tend to become counterproductive (refer to ACEA protocols and Motul's comments) unless fuel dilution is relevant or a "special" application demands it

The engine which is the subject of this Thread needs a minimum of 3.5cP according to Porsche's Engineers who designed and built the engines. This is why 5W-40 & 15W-40 HDEOs are relevant - however Porsche prescribes a minimum of a semi-synthetic (severe hydrocracked) lubricants

A well documented case history exists for a 10W-60 lubricant in certain BMW engines - as BMW prescribes

 

[JimPghPA]

M1 has a 0W-50 but I think you have to special order a ton of it.