Carbureted vs Electronic Fuel Injection Road Tripping

[Hohn]

I would happily without question go with carburetion. I am still driving points and carb daily as long as the road salt is gone. My experience has been that electronics just up and fail leaving one stuck. Mechanical systems normally give indication that there is an issue well before total failure. Slap a new AFB clone Edelbrock on there and drive happily. My 383 and Poly 318 Dodges have been trouble free with this setup for years.

This is akin to saying you'd rather die a 50 and see it coming than live to be 90 and die suddenly.

There's a reason that electronics have entire displaced mechanical systems in high-reliability applications: they're more reliable. Full stop.

Yes, electronics fail, but that's not because they are electronics, it's because they were improperly designed, validated, or made. There are many old school quality made electronics still functioning many, many decades later because they have no moving parts and nothing to wear out.

The reason people think electronics are unreliable is because electronics are SO reliable that it allowed us to make things hundreds of times more complex. The fact that a modern vehicle can be remotely reliable at all in spite of the blindingly complex electronic systems is a testament to the incredible durability electronics afford.

You want the ultimate in reliability, go with a retrofit EFI kit designed for originally carbureted engines. All the advantages of electronics but very simple compared to OEM setups driven by gov't rules.

 

[Hohn]

A scanner won't fix a leaky injector.

How often do injector leaks actually happen compared to a stuck float or stuck needle?

A carburetor is a fuel leak you make suggestions to.

 

[rijndael]

I help maintain a handful of 1980s cars. The fuel injected ones are always more of a hassle, lately it's been trying to locate (2) separate IACs. Before that, it was leaky EGRs (multiple brand new ones), but that impacts both carb and FI systems.

Parts on these cars is a big pain.

 

[CKN]

I would happily without question go with carburetion. I am still driving points and carb daily as long as the road salt is gone. My experience has been that electronics just up and fail leaving one stuck. Mechanical systems normally give indication that there is an issue well before total failure. Slap a new AFB clone Edelbrock on there and drive happily. My 383 and Poly 318 Dodges have been trouble free with this setup for years.

Unbelievable........

 

[garystaven88]

Yes, electronics fail, but that's not because they are electronics, it's because they were improperly designed, validated, or made.

Grrrrr and I think that’s where my brand loyalty of wanting a vintage Mopar van would bite me…. Their electronics have not been known to be stellar for a long time. Lean Burn electronics in the 70s/80s. Ballast resistors in the 70s/80s. PCMs and underhood fuse panels commonly failing 90s era and beyond.. 46RE transmissions with faulty electronic solenoids, list goes on.

Not that the other “Big 3” brands of this vintage haven’t had their share of electrical issues but it does seem to be more consistent with Chrysler products.

 

[Hohn]

Grrrrr and I think that’s where my brand loyalty of wanting a vintage Mopar van would bite me…. Their electronics have not been known to be stellar for a long time. Lean Burn electronics in the 70s/80s. Ballast resistors in the 70s/80s. PCMs and underhood fuse panels commonly failing 90s era and beyond.. 46RE transmissions with faulty electronic solenoids, list goes on.

Not that the other “Big 3” brands of this vintage haven’t had their share of electrical issues but it does seem to be more consistent with Chrysler products.

Yep, even the orange box Mopar electronic ignition upgrades were junk. How many cracked ballast resistors left people stranded?

Best option for reliability in a classic Mopar van is to ditch entirely the Mopar ignition and fuel systems in favor for a fully aftermarket distributorless setup. I think MSD has a crank trigger setup that integrates with a DIS setup to simulate the tone wheel function on a modern crank and crank position sensor.

All the Holley/FAST etc aftermarket setups can be retrofit to any classic LA or B/RB without too much difficulty. You can get manifolds already plumbed for GM style injectors with the rails on them.

It's not cheap, but it is absolutely a blast and when your classic 318/A500 combo is busting out 20+ mpg, it will be worth it all.

EDIT: not that anyone asked, but here's the mopar driveline I would build today if I was looking for a road cruiser:
-318 stroked to 390 with 4" crank and the catalog pistons Ross and many others (CP/JE?) now stock for this setup.
-Flat top pistons with the shortest possible quench height (0.035") against some closed chamber Edelbrock 59° heads.
- Custom Comp cam with the Mopar .904 lifter lobes targeting about 212° duration at 0.050" on a tight107 LSA.
- Higher volume oil pump (because we are targeting low cruise RPM and need more flow at low RPM).
- The tallest rear end R&P ratio you can find for your car
- Full aftermarket fuel and ignition with Holley/MSD parts.
- 6 speed Lenco

 

[OVERKILL]

I had my EEC-IV Bronco on the PCH in CA and at 14,100 on Mt Antero. Very few carbs can do that with never opening the hood. Furthermore the EFI will be the most efficient at either altitude and start at any temp. Cold soaking overnight at -30F? Doesn't matter. Parked in PHX all day at 115F? No problem, and fire up the a/c right away - it'll compensate the idle.

I'd rather carry a scanner than spare carb parts. EFI tends to be good about fail safe or limp modes, but now in our hubris we're seeing things like leaking taillights pull down the whole CAN and cause a no-start. Unfortunate that we couldn't leave well-enough alone. So yeah, something with "earlier" EFI is arguably more reliable. It doesn't have to be TBI, but every time you add a module you add a weakness IMO. I don't necessarily want my PCM to know what my taillights are doing. Or my stereo. Or my power windows. Or my doors (I'm looking at you AutoPark). I don't even want it to know what my brake pedal is doing aside from maybe canceling cruise control, depending upon the system.

Yeah, EEC-IV for me is a no brainer over a carb, that's why I made sure we got a ski boat with it. The difference between it and the carbureted ones, it's massive.

 

[emmett442]

My experience tells me that MOST of the electronic ignition systems weren't all that bad. However, lack of decent aftermarket replacement parts plagued all of them. First ECU or ballast resistor could last a good long time. After failure of the original, you could be replacing them every year or two.

Anyway, as far as who did it best...there's a reason HEI-style ignition is offered for most classic engines.

Carb vs EFI? I mean, EFI is obviously the way to go for a multitude of reasons. But if you want to isolate only dependability, I'd actually give the nod to a simple 1 or 2 barrel carb. The most simple fuel metering device ever. As long as there is fuel in the bowl and airflow through the venturi, the engine will run. There really isn't anything that can stop them dead outside of massive dirt infiltration to the point that they are plugged up solid, which would also stop EFI.

 

[LDM]

EFI without question. I've rarely seen a ECM/PCM fail and on the rare occasion they do its not due to the design. I've only had 1 PCM fail fully on me during my almost 30 years of doing modding/tuning on car computers and that was a 94 Z28 LT1 PCM that I modified to be able to reprogram the flash chips in a EPROM programmer.

 

[BituminousCoal]

This is akin to saying you'd rather die a 50 and see it coming than live to be 90 and die suddenly.

There's a reason that electronics have entire displaced mechanical systems in high-reliability applications: they're more reliable. Full stop.

Yes, electronics fail, but that's not because they are electronics, it's because they were improperly designed, validated, or made. There are many old school quality made electronics still functioning many, many decades later because they have no moving parts and nothing to wear out.

The reason people think electronics are unreliable is because electronics are SO reliable that it allowed us to make things hundreds of times more complex. The fact that a modern vehicle can be remotely reliable at all in spite of the blindingly complex electronic systems is a testament to the incredible durability electronics afford.

You want the ultimate in reliability, go with a retrofit EFI kit designed for originally carbureted engines. All the advantages of electronics but very simple compared to OEM setups driven by gov't rules.

No.

 

[andrew_j]

Drive whatever you want and have enough money with you that “stranded” is a bummer not a problem to your life.

You have an easier time fixing a 1996+ van with OBD-II then OBD-I or carb.

 

[Silverado12]

I'm going to go against the grain here but on an older car, I would prefer carburetors and electronic ignition. I've never, ever had a carb go bad w/o warning, and when it does, it's something like a bad accelerator pump. When I replace that, I'll do a needle and seat. I would prefer points over electronic for reliability but I think they're all cheap foreign junk nowadays. I would just replace my points and condensor every year along with my spark plugs (because of unleaded fuel).

 

[02SE]

I'm close to buying a new Dual-sport motorcycle with a carburetor. It's ability to be fixed when you're a long ways from any cell service on some lonely trail, is the appeal. Yes, modern EFI doesn't often fail, but if it does in that circumstance, you could be in trouble.

 

[fdcg27]

Carb and points are easily understood and diagnosed. OTOH, EFI and EI rarely fail, so your pick.
I wouldn't want to deal with a carb and points again personally. I've done too many drama free miles over the past thirty years without either to want to.
I think that outside of the Arctic in the early twentieth century or a war zone, field maintainability of systems that rarely fail should be of little concern.