Carbon-cleaning Valvoline Premium Restore

[cven]

LOL....Sorry about my previous post. I thought this was a carbon cleaner that was added to the gas. Going off JAG's post above that its only certain esters do some cleaning how would one know what esters are in the oil. Redline..Motul....ect

 

[andyd]

esters such as lanolin?

 

[fdcg27]

Thanks! This will be a valuable addition to everyone's virtual tool kit. If this oil performs as promised, and I'm thinking it would since fleet Cummins operators are probably not snake oil prospects, then it would certainly be worth a try in any dirty engine or one showing symptoms of stuck rings. It may be pricey, but still orders of magnitude cheaper than a teardown. Would be interesting to try this oil in a Saturn or one of the ring coking Toyotas. Incidentally, in response to an above reply post, VME has neither the W end nor the NOACK numbers to support the notion that it uses any really costly basestocks.

 

[JAG]

I agree fdcg27. I don’t own an engine with excessive deposits, so I hope someone that does tries it and lets us know how well it works.

 

[JAG]

The first test of this oil has begun. I put the varnish scraping from a past test into an aluminum cup, sitting in the Valvoline oil. I’m going to heat it up and depending on whether any dissolving occurs, keep the test going and increase the temperature. When I transferred the deposit into the oil, a small part of it separated, so that’s why there are two pieces. The bigger black deposit at the bottom of the image is from an older test and it is well adhered. It has been cleaned with several gun bore solvents already so I don’t expect it to be dissolved at all.

 

[PimTac]

I’m looking forward to the results of this. JAG, do you suspect that components of this product might be in Valvoline Modern Engine? VME has been discussed here previously and for the most part it’s a mystery as to what the benefits are versus their Advanced Synthetic. The price point is much higher as well although I have seen the price drop roughly $5 from the initial pricing at Wally’s.

 

[JAG]

PimTac, my thoughts on that are up in post #4780462. I just heated the oil up to over 200 F for several minutes and saw no signs of dissolution of the varnish deposits. That is obviously not nearly long enough to even come close to how long is is typically at such temperatures during a typical OCI. I’m just reporting what has happened so far. Also, the nature of the deposit matters too. This isn’t the be-all-end-all test. It’s just the first of many and no test is the be-all-end-all test.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: JAG

Yes, we are mostly in the dark guessing about the true performance in different areas with Valvoline Modern Engine oil and M1 AP. I have seen nothing about them that seems to justify their price tags. Both companies need to do a better job of proving that in their marketing. Modern Engine Oil seems focused on GDI engine valve deposits which is quite different from piston/ring deposits that Valvoline Premium Blue Restore was designed to clean. The formulation approaches to achieve success in the different areas is probably fairly different but with some overlap. I would not be surprised if esters helped reduce valve deposits. The choice of ester is likely very important. I think a paper was posted here that stated that. PAO made the deposits the worst, if I recall correctly, especially with used oil. Some esters burn away relatively cleanly and some much less so. Another potential benefit is that esters can dissolve carbon as the above patent shows. The environment of an engine valve in a GDI engine reminds me of the Panel Coker Test with the addition of cyclical combustion.

I brought up that post in the quote box above. I did remember your thoughts on this. I agree that Valvoline has stumbled on the marketing of VME. For the roughly $12 increase over VAS the benefits are not clear. That price is WalMarts, purchasing this oil anywhere else might bring the price close to $40 which is not sustainable imo. I know Valvoline or any oil company for that matter prefers to not disclose proprietary info but this is a two edged sword as well.

 

[JAG]

I agree PimTac, when a motor oil manufacturer decides to go above and beyond with a formulation and charge more for it, they need to first do testing to determine how far above and beyond it goes, and then share that information in their marketing. They can’t count on minimal mentionings of how it is good in certain areas and by the price being high, hoping customers equate high price with high performance.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: JAG

They can’t count on minimal mentionings of how it is good in certain areas and by the price being high, hoping customers equate high price with high performance.

Exactly. We've seen that failure mode before. Don't give the customer something somewhat tangible for their premium dollars above the base product, and you're going to face an uphill battle.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: Garak

Originally Posted By: JAG

They can’t count on minimal mentionings of how it is good in certain areas and by the price being high, hoping customers equate high price with high performance.

Exactly. We've seen that failure mode before. Don't give the customer something somewhat tangible for their premium dollars above the base product, and you're going to face an uphill battle.

Very true. There are companies that go into detail about their products, how they work and how they can be better for you. Apple is one. There are plenty others. These companies tend to enjoy good sales and high customer loyalty. The oil companies should be paying attention.

 

[Garak]

When Castrol brought gold bottle up here, the only difference that could be discerned between it and black bottle was the price. This was back in SM/GF-4. The stuff wasn't moving at all. When they differentiated the OCI promise between it and black bottle, all of a sudden it started to sell. And, we all know the difficulties that have been seen with PU versus PP over the years.

 

[Gokhan]

"Suspected of damaging fertility or the unborn child. ... Avoid breathing mist / spray." Great. I dare you to do an OCI with it. I wonder what makes this oil hazardous, which is very unusual for a motor oil. Also be cautioned that this oil isn't tested for any certification. It could cause excessive wear and other problems. Use it only if you know you have coked rings and for no longer than a single OCI.

 

[PimTac]

This link may provide some insights into the composition of this product and maybe VME as well. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0029734.html

 

[BrocLuno]

I believe that some Cummins big truck engines require this as a service item every 300,000 miles. Fleet operators are the target customer. Those that want to go a 1,000,000 miles and have a saleable truck. I'm dead sure it works as advertised. It ain't cheap, but shops are doing full crankcase loads on schedule and seeing tangible results in diesel engines in the exhaust analysis, and I hear in fuel economy numbers after treatment. This is in response to ULSD and DPF treatments ...

 

[jakewells]

I sure would like to try it in my old nova / f150 and see what kind of muck and #$%&* it would clean out.

 

[Vspec]

I hate to be that guy but what about using this as a additive booster with another oil? Could you\we substitute 1 quart of your regular fill for this in a passenger car and achieve appreciable results? Or should we leave well enough alone?

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: Vspec

I hate to be that guy but what about using this as a additive booster with another oil? Could you\we substitute 1 quart of your regular fill for this in a passenger car and achieve appreciable results? Or should we leave well enough alone?

I think it might make an overall better oil mix than the oil you mixed it with. But it might make it worse in some areas, some of which you can get indications on and some that you cannot. This is one of those things that predictions of performance are essentially not possible, so you’ll have to try it and test to see how it goes. First ensure miscibility by mixing a small quantify of both oils, then letting it sit for a day, then look for separation. If it passes the miscibility test, it would be best to do a UOA on the oil you are going to mix the Valvoline with. That is, do a UOA in the normal oil run to x miles. Then run the mix for x miles and get a UOA on that. Get TBN and TAN tested in both UOAs. It would be extra helpful if you did a VOA on the mix. I think it would be more ideal to just use purely the Valvoline oil. Getting a UOA on that would be helpful and interesting to us here. The Valvoline oil is already unchartered territory. Making a mix out of it adds the usual doubts/concerns to an already uncharted territory oil. If the UOA on the pure Valvoline looks good, then that can add confidence that all is well with that oil in your engine and your driving habits and climate. Then if you decide you want to try a mix, go for it and get a UOA on the mix.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Valvoline Premium Blue Restore could be a good answer for the infamous Toyota-Scion oil usage issue, when the piston rings are sticking. Then people might not have to tear the bottom half apart and drill more/bigger piston holes. ... and when using just about any oil, as in the piston below after 20,000 miles using Mobil1 Annual Protection:

 

[JAG]

Indeed, oil_film_movies. Those are some funky pistons and rings. Saturn also made engines that suffered from that problem.