CARB Catalytic Converter - AP/Eastern/Catco vs. BRE vs. Magnaflow

[researcher]

Bump.

Walker 82895 lasted 3 years and 4 months.....and a whopping 26,312 miles!

During that time, it saw:

One 5K interval with M1 5W20
One 10K interval with HPL
Two 5K intervals with M1 EP 5W30 Triple Action
One 3K interval (and counting) with Valvoline R&P

With the exception of the Valvoline product, oil consumption averaged 1 qt/2000-2500 miles, which should not have been enough to materially impact catalyst life.

just as I've seen lately with other Walker products, the quality of that brand is NOT what it used to be. Ever since they got bought out, the quality has been going down and down, to the point where the last part I ever got from them (muffler) wasn't even welded correctly. I actually ended up needing a new cat because of an exhaust manifold crack on civic, which is typical of that generation (96-2000), got a no-name Chinese catalytic (which everyone says is bad quality) they have better quality and welds than anything Walker was offering or is offering now.

Your experience is typical lately of that company, crazy I know..

 

[Nukeman7]

Bump.

Walker 82895 lasted 3 years and 4 months.....and a whopping 26,312 miles!

How did it fail? Was it rusted through and leaking or did it fail emissions testing? Since the Walker CARB (not EPA) model has a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty, the next one should be free.

 

[Chris142]

How did it fail? Was it rusted through and leaking or did it fail emissions testing? Since the Walker CARB (not EPA) model has a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty, the next one should be free.

No rust on his area. I'm sure it failed the stringent Ca emissions test.

 

[JTK]

I'm assuming it threw a P0420? Any possibility of warranty coverage?

Lasting only ~26K miles for an aftermarket CARB compliant unit is disappointing to say the least. These were ~$500 ~4yrs ago. They're probably more money and worse quality today, like everything else.

My only recent experience with Walker products is with the 2 walker cat-back systems I've put on my 2015 Nissan Versa. The parts are absolute flimsy, rust prone garbage. Shops use what they can get quickly, and unfortunately, it's usually Walker.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Bump.

Walker 82895 lasted 3 years and 4 months.....and a whopping 26,312 miles!

During that time, it saw:

One 5K interval with M1 5W20
One 10K interval with HPL
Two 5K intervals with M1 EP 5W30 Triple Action
One 3K interval (and counting) with Valvoline R&P

With the exception of the Valvoline product, oil consumption averaged 1 qt/2000-2500 miles, which should not have been enough to materially impact catalyst life.

and now CARB doesn't approve that cat anymore, says the OEM cat is back in stock, and that no aftermarket cats are approved for the -CKP SULEV version. (this is going by links you posted earlier in the thread)

Will Walker reimburse you for an OEM cat? The short life is probably why they got the exemption revoked

 

[Nukeman7]

and now CARB doesn't approve that cat anymore, says the OEM cat is back in stock, and that no aftermarket cats are approved for the -CKP SULEV version. (this is going by links you posted earlier in the thread)

Will Walker reimburse you for an OEM cat? The short life is probably why they got the exemption revoked

I'm not sure that the "ask the ref." info from that link is 100% accurate. The Walker 82895 is still available and the current website shows CARB compliance. I have never heard of a emission certification being revoked retroactively on a product that was sold years earlier.

 

[The Critic]

I'm not sure that the "ask the ref." info from that link is 100% accurate. The Walker 82895 is still available and the current website shows CARB compliance. I have never heard of a emission certification being revoked retroactively on a product that was sold years earlier.

View attachment 256009

Unfortunately, @slacktide_bitog is correct in this situation. At least on the surface. CARB referee exemptions are only valid for the EO# and Part# listed on the inspection label.

Technically, if I install the "updated" Walker part and take the vehicle for a smog, it will not pass. The only alternative is to buy the OEM part.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

I'm not sure that the "ask the ref." info from that link is 100% accurate. The Walker 82895 is still available and the current website shows CARB compliance. I have never heard of a emission certification being revoked retroactively on a product that was sold years earlier.

View attachment 256009

Here is California's aftermarket catalytic database.

According to that site, the only CARB-legal aftermarket cats for the 2003 Accord 2.4 3HNXV02.4KCP are from Magnaflow.

The part number the OP used is listed for JBP (the LEV) but not the KCP (SULEV). It appears CARB allowed that Walker cat temporarily on an emergency basis until the OE cat became available again. Because the cat was installed during the temporary approval period, there are no legal problems, but the early failure is probably common in the SULEV cars, which is why they didn't permanently approve the Walker cat for exemption on a permanent basis.

The asktheref site is maintained by California's Bureau of Auto Repair and their community college system. The "ref" is the referee for special cases like when there are no CA-legal cats available.

If Walker won't reimburse a new OE cat (the only CA-legal cat for that engine number), and the owner won't pay the difference (and it's a big price difference, over $2000 vs $600), then the owner will have to sell the car to someone out-of-state

 

[Nukeman7]

Unfortunately, @slacktide_bitog is correct in this situation. At least on the surface. CARB referee exemptions are only valid for the EO# and Part# listed on the inspection label.

Technically, if I install the "updated" Walker part and take the vehicle for a smog, it will not pass. The only alternative is to buy the OEM part.

Thank you and @slacktide_bitog for enlightening me on the CARB regulations in this scenario. I am always amazed at the level of technical expertise at both the macro and micro levels on BITOG. I suppose it would not be unreasonable to ask Walker to refund part or all the cost of the 82895 converter since it is no longer a legal application for the '03 Accord SULEV motor in California.

If they are unwilling to do anything other than offer a replacement 82895, I would personally install that and see what happens at the next smog test. There is no practical way for the inspector to know that it was installed after the revocation date of August 1, 2023, especially if the owner can produce a 2021 receipt for the original Walker unit.

 

[UncleDave]

Cousin's 03 Accord 2.4 got its catalytic converter stolen earlier this evening.

OE is $2200.

The aftermarket has three CARB approved options:

AP/Eastern/Catco is $590 from my local supplier.

Rockauto has BRE/Bosal for $~750

Magnaflow is also available for $1100.

All appear to have a 5/50k warranty.

Which one should I get?

Avoid Magnaflow. Its junk.

 

[The Critic]

Thank you and @slacktide_bitog for enlightening me on the CARB regulations in this scenario. I am always amazed at the level of technical expertise at both the macro and micro levels on BITOG. I suppose it would not be unreasonable to ask Walker to refund part or all the cost of the 82895 converter since it is no longer a legal application for the '03 Accord SULEV motor in California.

If they are unwilling to do anything other than offer a replacement 82895, I would personally install that and see what happens at the next smog test. There is no practical way for the inspector to know that it was installed after the revocation date of August 1, 2023, especially if the owner can produce a 2021 receipt for the original Walker unit.

Walker Tech Line just confirmed that part #82895 is being discontinued and availability is limited to the inventory on-hand (which is very likely, 0). They also said their warranty obligation ends once a part is discontinued.

 

[Nukeman7]

Walker Tech Line just confirmed that part #82895 is being discontinued and availability is limited to the inventory on-hand (which is very likely, 0). They also said their warranty obligation ends once a part is discontinued.

I wonder how they can legally offer a 5 year warranty and then renege on it? It sounds eerily similar to the Trane HVAC warranty issue that @Barkleymut is dealing with on his heat pump as discussed in this recent BITOG thread.

I suppose that corporations like Walker and Trane assume that the average consumer doesn't have the financial resources to legally challenge their warranty policy in small claims court over a $500 part.

 

[UncleDave]

It's a little fuzzy but you can make out the circle shape between the header pipe and the flange.

Im spraying soap on it to check for leaks, and it leaks that's the bubble.

This a brand new out of the box magnaflow CARB manifold on my titan.

This company builds junk, then gets hard to deal with.

Do something else, anything else, or you or the shop will do it twice.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Walker Tech Line just confirmed that part #82895 is being discontinued and availability is limited to the inventory on-hand (which is very likely, 0). They also said their warranty obligation ends once a part is discontinued.

If it was by email, forward it to CARB and the California AG.

If it was by phone, send them an email, and if they respond the same, forward that to CARB and the AG.

There is no way in hell that California would allow them to weasel their way out of a warranty by discontinuing the part number. It seems like a good way for Walker to have ALL of their CARB exemptions pulled

 

[The Critic]

If it was by email, forward it to CARB and the California AG.

If it was by phone, send them an email, and if they respond the same, forward that to CARB and the AG.

There is no way in hell that California would allow them to weasel their way out of a warranty by discontinuing the part number. It seems like a good way for Walker to have ALL of their CARB exemptions pulled

I wonder how they can legally offer a 5 year warranty and then renege on it? It sounds eerily similar to the Trane HVAC warranty issue that @Barkleymut is dealing with on his heat pump as discussed in this recent BITOG thread.

I suppose that corporations like Walker and Trane assume that the average consumer doesn't have the financial resources to legally challenge their warranty policy in small claims court over a $500 part.

Just checked the warranty terms. Unfortunately, the Tech Line representative was correct:

This warranty does not apply to: (i) products which have been installed on non-catalogued applications; (ii) products that are new, unused or show signs of normal wear but not defective; (iii) products which have been misused, modified, altered, improperly applied or installed; (iv) product damaged in an accident or by fire, weather, or any other force majeure event or hazard; (v) products which have been installed on vehicles used for commercial, fleet, Governmental or racing purposes or damaged due to vehicle modifications; (vi) obsolete parts no longer available from DRiV; (vii) product that has been transferred from the vehicle on which it was originally installed; (viii) non-genuine DRiV branded product or competitive parts; (ix) product that has been damaged from the use of leaded fuels; and (x) products installed on vehicles that have been modified outside the specifications of the vehicle’s original equipment manufacturer, including but not limited to aftermarket modifications for racing, off-road, or powersports purposes.

https://www.walkerexhaust.com/warranty/california-converter-warranty.html

 

[researcher]

and more digging on Walker, they got bought out by a private equity firm.. yup here we go again, a race to the bottom for quality while they squeeze all the profit for the top management. Soon walker will be out of business like sears.. squeezed for the last dime.

And wow.. the warranty says that (in bold, above my comment).. thanks @The Critic that's insane.. I wondered how bad things would get when 2 or so years ago maybe 3 when I didn't go back to Walker and chose a no-name Chinese part.. I wondered how bad things would get, now we know! Just taking the money and running away is what they do at Walker.

And thanks @UncleDave for showing how sad magnaflow has gotten, too!

 

[researcher]

also wanted to do some digging to find out what happened with Walker. I remembered private equity but the story is this..

Walker was part of Federal-Mogul and Tenneco bought out FM in 2018. From there I saw a fall in quality (as did others). Tenneco spun off the automotive section into a brand called Driv. Tenneco was bought out by Apollo Global Management in 2022, yep private equity. here's a link to that PR-release

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/ten...-a-$7.1-bln-all-cash-deal-to-become-a-private

here's a list of what brands Tenneco owns.. not surprising to hear of the following brands. With the bad experiences members on this forum have reported of these brands. Now we know they're all part of the same company!

Axios - Champion Spark Plugs - Clevite elastomers - Dynomax - Federal-Mogul - Ferodo - Fel-Pro - Fric-Rot - Kinetic - Monroe - Moog - National Oil Seals - Ohlins - Rancho - Wagner Electric - Walker - Thrush

 

[Chris142]

There is no way in hell that California would allow them to weasel their way out of a warranty by discontinuing the part number. It seems like a good way for Walker to have ALL of their CARB exemptions pulled

Maybe they are tired of jumping through Californias hoops and are discontinuing the CA parts.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Maybe they are tired of jumping through Californias hoops and are discontinuing the CA parts.

There is something specific to this particular engine that is giving them a hard time.

Other engines have more options for aftermarket cats with CARB approval, including from Walker.

 

[D60]

here's a list of what brands Tenneco owns.. not surprising to hear of the following brands. With the bad experiences members on this forum have reported of these brands. Now we know they're all part of the same company!

Axios - Champion Spark Plugs - Clevite elastomers - Dynomax - Federal-Mogul - Ferodo - Fel-Pro - Fric-Rot - Kinetic - Monroe - Moog - National Oil Seals - Ohlins - Rancho - Wagner Electric - Walker - Thrush

Aren't there more brands yet under Federal Mogul? This gets confusing!

I'm certainly not surprised about Moog, Monroe and Fel-Pro