Car wouldn't start...stay in gear

[coopns]

Pulling up the road today and lady had her car stuck. Neighbor was trying to jump it, wouldn't really take, could her it tick/tick/ticking (is that the starter?) So she could move it out of P (Park), could move the ignition swith forward but not start. So is that the way the P/N/R goes?

Just curious.

 

[ctrcbob]

Huh?

 

[SLCraig]

If you're getting a click with even jumper cables you have a bad connection somewhere probably.

 

[matrass]

sounds like somebody had a car that would not start. seems they could move the transmission through the gears. clicking sound when trying to start the car. is that sounds right ?

 

[bigjl]

The only make of car were you can get in neutral without starting the engine in an auto was my Legacy, you had a little button you pressed to get it out of park, handy.

I am sure other cars have the same thing, just I have never seen it.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: coopns
Pulling up the road today and lady had her car stuck. Neighbor was trying to jump it, wouldn't really take, could her it tick/tick/ticking (is that the starter?) So she could move it out of P (Park), could move the ignition swith forward but not start. So is that the way the P/N/R goes?

Just curious.


could you translate that into something understandable?

I read that 3x and came up with 3 different things and dont know what you are actually asking.

 

[exranger06]

It doesn't matter whether the car is in park/neutral/whatever, you should be able to start it in any position. If all you get is a loud click when you turn the key, the problem is either a bad battery, bad starter, or bad wiring connection. Since the car was being jumped, you can rule out a bad battery. I bet it's a bad starter. I had the same problem on my girlfriend's mother's Bronco.

 

[coopns]

Sorry, was in a hurry.

So this car was on our street. Wouldn't start. Stuck kind of like half backed out of the driveway. So a neighbor tried to jump it. Was clicking away, wouldn't seem to take the charge. She couldn't move the car into Reverse/Neutral so we could push it back out of on coming cars. She could turn the ignition switch to try to start but couldn't move the handle to move it into reverse.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
The only make of car were you can get in neutral without starting the engine in an auto was my Legacy, you had a little button you pressed to get it out of park, handy.

I am sure other cars have the same thing, just I have never seen it.


Huh?
I've never seen an automatic that couldn't be put in neutral without the engine running.
You might have to turn the key to the run position to unlock the shifter, especially if it's on the column, but the car doesn't need to be running.
To the OP, the things is probably a little locked if it's on a grade.
Push uphill, and the shifter should move with the key in the run position.
The driver may need to step on the brake to release the interlock, or you could always use the emergency override feature.

 

[JimPghPA]

Sometimes a totally dead 12 volt battery will load down a good battery soooooo much that even a very large good 12 volt battery with way more CCA (cold cranking amps) than the bad vehicle normally requires, and with very good thick jumper cables and good connections, the good battery just can't supply enough to get the bad vehicle to start.

When that is the case, confiscate all sets of keys to the bad vehicle so no one can try to crank it, and leave the two jumpered together and run the good vehicle for 15 minutes. That will bring up the voltage on the bad battery enough to enable the good battery to start the bad one. Then shut off the good vehicle, leave them jumpered together, and with the good vehicles engine not running have someone try to start the bad vehicle.

When you jump start a vehicle always have the engine of the good vehicle NOT RUNNING. Because there is always a slight chance that the load of the bad vehicle could cause the alternator of the good vehicle to put out soooo much current that it damages one or more of the diodes in the good vehicles alternator.

BTW, I have seen this situation of the bad vehicles battery causing too much drain and requiring a 15 minute charge before a successful jump stat can be accomplished, several times. It is more common than you might think.

 

[JimPghPA]

Many times the owner of the bad vehicle, or someone else will try to get the owner of the good vehicle to run the engine while someone tries to start the bad vehicle. Don't do it. There is a real chance that the diodes of the alternator of the good vehicle will be damaged if you have the engine running when someone tries to start the bad vehicle. That is why I confiscate all sets to keys to the bad vehicle before connecting the two with the jumpers if I am going to run the engine of the good vehicle.

 

[JimPghPA]

Most cars with an automatic transmission must be in park or neutral before you can energize the starter. If the starter is making a clicking noise, then the circuit to enable the starter is allowing the starter to try to start the car.

Besides the likely problem of a discharged battery causing too much load, there is a slight chance that the starter is bad. But more than 9 out of 10 times if you charge the bad vehicle for 15 minutes and shut off the good vehicle, with them still jumpered together the bad vehicle will start.

 

[JimPghPA]

Also: anytime you jumper a vehicle even if you do everything properly including making the last connection to a ground on an engine far away from the battery, there is a slight chance that the bad battery will blow up. It is probably like less than one out of hundred chance, and you may never have one happen to you, but there is a real chance that the bad battery will explode.

One of the things you should have figured out in advance if if the bad battery explodes and douses you with acid, where would you get enough water on you to dilute the acid within less than half a minute.

One day when I was sick and sitting on a couch, I watched someone jump start a truck across the street, and the bad battery blew up. It looked like someone threw a gallon of water up from where the battery was. The person doing the jumpering of the two vehicles ran into the house and got under the shower. I saw that person several days later and asked him about it. He said that he had made all the connections properly, including making the last connection to a ground of one of the engines. And the bad battery still blew up as soon as he made the last connection.

So you probably want to make the last connection to the ground (engine metal) of the good engine, so you can be as far as possible from the bad battery in-case it does explode.

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: bigjl
The only make of car were you can get in neutral without starting the engine in an auto was my Legacy, you had a little button you pressed to get it out of park, handy.

I am sure other cars have the same thing, just I have never seen it.


Huh?
I've never seen an automatic that couldn't be put in neutral without the engine running.
You might have to turn the key to the run position to unlock the shifter, especially if it's on the column, but the car doesn't need to be running.
To the OP, the things is probably a little locked if it's on a grade.
Push uphill, and the shifter should move with the key in the run position.
The driver may need to step on the brake to release the interlock, or you could always use the emergency override feature.


Well automatics aren't as common as in the US. But the old LDV Ambulances with a ZF box could be pulled out of park with the engine off.

However the newer Mercedes Sprinters and Vauxhall Zafira Cdtis we had at work couldn't.

My Subaru Legacy (circa 2004) also couldn't be taken out of P unless you pressed a little button situated beside the gear lever.

And how will pushing an automatic make any difference if it is in P. Unless the car was put in P then allowed to roll forward.

And just because you haven't seen automatic vehicles that can't be removed from P without having the engine started doesn't mean they don't exist.

It may just be something that applies to the more modern autoboxes. Who knows but it does fit in with the information given by the OP.

 

[eljefino]

Most cars now have a solenoid that keeps you from shifting out of park unless your foot is on the brake. This needs electricity to work. My saturn, floor shift automatic, would let you move the shifter to neutral from park with the key in "Accessory" without electricity. Key off, there was an anti theft cable, all mechanical. Key on, there was a solenoid blocking the path, and a relay or two in the brake light circuit to energize/de-energize that solenoid.

The Audi 5000 "sudden acelleration" controversy of the mid 1980s created the need for these interlocks.

We don't know if this car is a floor or column shift auto, or even what it is. Column shift autos tend to use a mechanical key switch/ shifter starter kill interlock. This is a different interlock than the "let me out of park" interlock. It also has to work, obviously, but you can't turn the key to start unless it's in P or N.

To OP, you have a dead dead dead battery in the receiving car. Best bet is to throw a cheapie $20 walmart 6 amp charger on it overnight or at least a couple hours so you can get the transmission to unlock.

Tow truck drivers know how to quickly pop most shift linkages to bypass all this drama, BTW.

 

[fdcg27]

Kind of like just because you haven't seen the tooth fairly it doesn't mean she doesn't exist?
You were mistaken, man.
Just that simple.

 

[coopns]

Not my wheels, just passed in on my street. I was willing to help/jump/push whatever to get it out of the road. I knew you guys would have some answers for me, I'm always curious and love to hear the thoughts/opinions/advice here. Thanks.

 

[JimPghPA]

Some standard transmissions can have the shift linkage mess up, and put the transmission in two gears at once. When that happens if you let the clutch out, the engine is trying to turn an impossible drive set up because any two gears have different ratio. So the trany is like a mechanical lock up that the engine can't possibly turn. That will stall the engine if you let the clutch out.

My 1976 Plymouth Volare with the 225 slant 6 and three on the column standard sifter use to do that about once every several months. I would have to climb under the car and work the linkage by hand to get them into only one gear. Sometimes I could get it corrected by the linkage under the hood, but usually it required you to crawl under it.

 

[JimPghPA]

Also when the trany went into two gears at once, the car could not be moved even if you put the clutch in.

 

[meep]

1. starter is not allowed to energize unless trans is in N or P
2. if you suspect it's getting enough juice (dash lights all stay lit while key is in 'start') then the starter solenoid contacts are likely worn. No jumping will help that unless you also run a jumper cable to the copper bar that carries (+) into the motor housing. But-- that's dangerous and I personally would not advise doing it.

M