Car won't start after testing electrical systems

[JasonTL]

So, I've been trying to diagnose my power window problem and today my brother and I tested the fusebox to see if we were getting power. We got power in 3 of the 4 columns, the dead column has the power window circuit breaker. So we thought there must be a problem getting power to that column on the fuse box. We tried to get the fusebox off but we couldn't because one screw is rounded. We then went under the hood and found the back of the fusebox and a large connector connecting to it. We unbolted the connected to look at it.

We tested between those terminals(the ones on the back of the fusebox) and the fusebox for continuity and could find it for the 3 columns but not the one with the power windows. Is it possible there's something wrong with the fusebox?

Sorry about the rabbit trail, about the car starting problem:

After putting everything back together I went to start the car. I turned the key to RUN and it beeped like usual. I then turned it over to start it and something under the hood/car made a click like sound. I think it may've been the starter trying to start but I don't know. I turned the key back when I heard the sound. A few moments later I tried it again and it didn't even make the beeped. I checked the IGN fuse and the Crank fuse and they look fine.

Did my troubleshooting for the power windows somehow cause a short in the starting system? Before I started troubleshooting the car started and drove fine. It seems like when I tried to start the car something broke a safety switch(fuse, circuit breaker, fusible link) because I don't have any power now when I turn the key to RUN but my battery is good.

Any ideas where I may have goofed to cause this? And what the actual problem is? I would really hate to have to bring this to a mechanic on a trailer.
Note: I didn't see any bear wires while diagnosing nor after. Also, I did not check every fuse, only the IGN, CRANK, and EMCB ones.

Any help would be EXTREMELY appreciated.

 

[javacontour]

I would vote for didn't fully reseat the connector or you have a weak/dying battery.

 

[Smoky14]

The inside of that connector looks real bad to me, the metal contacts should be bright and clean. Sounds like a low battery or bad comtact within that connector.

Just keep plugging along and you'll find it.

Smoky

 

[meep]

suspect the fusebox is failing. hard without a schematic, we don't knwo what it's supposed to do, but I think as much as you do that the 4th row should have continuity to something on the back side of the connector.

looks like dielectric grease in the connector-- I hope. sounds like it's not making good contact. loosen securing nut. wiggle lots.

like smoky14 said, you're on the right track. good job.

 

[eljefino]

Plug and unplug that thing a dozen times. Maybe it'll scrape some corrosion off. But it doesn't look good.

 

[EricF]

I'd get some electronic contact cleaner and clean off the grease & grime to start with.. CRC makes a good cleaner, QD Electronics cleaner I think it's branded.
then get some fresh dielectric grease..

 

[JasonTL]

I cleaned it with a file by scraping some grease off. Got a fair bit but it still looks really grimy. Put the connector back on and wiggled it as I tightened the bolt. Turned the key to RUN and nothing. No beep, no clicks. Tried turning it over and of course nothing happened.

I tested the pins on the connector and two of them were getting 7.5v and one got 3.5v. A few of the others got a little something occasionally but never registered a solid number. Don't know if that's how it's supposed to be or if the grease is still screwing with it or if something else up stream got messed up.

Regarding the battery, it is 6 years old but was running fine the last few weeks. I suppose with temps hitting 75+(even 80 today) it could have pushed it over the edge. I put it on a trickle charge and will try it in the morning. If the car doesn't start tomorrow then I'll bring the battery into an auto store to be tested and get some contact cleaner.

Regarding this darn grease, is it really necessary for me to put more back on after I get this working? It doesn't seem worth it.
Is the contact cleaner kinda like an aerosol spray I can spray into both sides of the connector? Or will I have to put it on a rag and rub it?

What seems strange to me(perhaps not to y'all) is that when I first tried to start the car it made the beep when I turned it to RUN and when I tried to start it there was a click under the hood like something trying to turn. It was only for a moment though and then stopped. All subsequent tries have not given me any noises when set to RUN nor when I try to start it.

Before I tried to start it the first time I had set it to RUN a few times and it made the beep like usual.

Could it have gotten low enough to where one start-try drained it enough to where nothing works now?
Also, just to make sure, I tried turning it to RUN and then tested the headlights, blinker, and turn signal. None of these work now. They worked previously when I just turned it to RUN.

Sorry for the long posts. Thank you for the replies and encouragement.

 

[eljefino]

Your battery is toast as are your connections.

Back up, breathe.

3.5 volts or 7 volts with no load is going to drop to "nothing" with any sort of load on them.

Although I see potting compound and grease I also see oxidation, the darker brown copper. Scraping the male ends clean will do little good if the female ends have been widened by your picking at them.

If you have a loose main battery cable it will arc and oxidize. Literally remove your battery clamps, scrape them with a wire brush, and reinstall. Don't torque them like mojilla gorilla, you can literally snap the tops off a battery doing that.

Similarly the starter hot lead and the main negative ground could have arced and will pass a visual exam.

Sometimes these cars use battery "pigtails" on the assembly line where there's a quick connect of the main wire in a wierd spot. Check for this.

 

[yonyon]

Is that definitely just grease? It looks all melty-like.

Assuming it's all just grease and you get it cleaned up properly, get a good light and look inside each female terminal to be sure it looks like it will make good solid contact. Reconnect it and then check your fuses with a test light. Once you've done that, go over to the battery and tighten up the loose cable.

 

[Chris142]

After you clean the mess up slightly bend the female side of the connections to make them fit tighter.

 

[JasonTL]

Just to clarify, I did NOT scrape or mess with the female ends. They should fit just the same as before, although they also still have grease on them.

I am 90% sure it is just grease, 25 year old grease(It's a 88 Suburban). It didn't seem like any corrosion or oxides I've ever seen or felt(it feels kinda like really old sticky slowly melted rubber, comes off fairly easily though). I'm going to get some Contact Cleaner tomorrow. I should be able to spray the male and female ends. If it's just dielectric grease the cleaner should cut it, but if it's oxidization it won't, right?

If the connector is beyond hope, is it replaceable and how hard?

I wouldn't be too surprised if the battery is bad, being 6 years old. It was reading 12v though with my meter. It is a side-n-top post battery but I have always made sure the connectors were on their firmly but not over-torqued. I have taken them on and off the past few days during my diagnosing of the power windows. I have always made sure to not over nor under torque them. There is no corrosion on the side posts where the car connects, though the top posts may have a little(I don't connect there so does it matter?).

@Chris, that's a great idea. I hadn't noticed before that the female connectors aren't double receivers like most. I'll also check the male ends to make sure they're angled toward the females.

About the starter leads, how can I check that? Currently there's no power reaching the inside of the car so I can't try the starter with the key.

 

[artificialist]

If the battery is reading exactly 12V, you have a problem. A fully charged battery has an open circuit voltage of 12.6v, and if you want accurate test results, the battery should be at 12.5v or above.

 

[JasonTL]

Today after trickle charging the battery overnight it read 13.35v.
I tested the connectors again and two of them read 13.35v. This should prove that decent power is reaching the male end of the connector.

Still no start though.

I'm going to get and use the contact cleaner later. I'm thinking that grease must have gunked up the female connector as well and must be stuck in there preventing the males from making contact. Once I've cleaned both sides I'll hopefully get power to the fuse box again. If not at least I have that ruled out.

 

[meep]

eljefino did a nice job up above.

at this point you really need to know what leads are bad. be tactical in your search, instead of a blanket fix. I think you may be off-target now.

connect it up and see what does work. mark that off the list.

next-- where to start.... does the IGN sw have power?? No? ok start there. look for continuity from the sw back to the fusebox. then ID that pin. then see if power is present on the other mating end.... keep going!

also, could you have knocked an in-dash connection, such as, mm, a ground, loose?

could still be IN that fusebox--- which was initially causing problems. open'er up. can't be too expensive to replace if you can't reassemble it.

you're doing good--- it can be overwhelming, at this point, the sit back, breath, start thinking through it, one chunk at a time. welcome to wiring!

 

[Fleetmon]

a lot of times too, those connectors require a bit of jiggling to get loose which can cause the female ends to get wallered out a little causing no/little contact.

 

[JasonTL]

It started!

Well, let me get around to that part, hah.

So, I cleaned the contacts with the CRC cleaner. Sprayed all the contacts on the male end and then sprayed the female receivers. Let dry a few minutes and then resprayed both. Let it sit for about an hour to insure it was dry.
Checked the battery before hooking it up and it read 12.75v(down .6 from 13.35 yesterday, hmmm) and then hooked it up. Tested the male terminals and the two that got 7.5v previously had 12.75v now. No others had anything.
Put connector back on, wiggling some as I tightened the bolt.
Tested fuse box and the 1st and 4th columns had 12.75v. Previously columns 1, 2, and 4 had power.
Put key in, no sound, turned, nothing.
Went back around to engine and jiggled some wires I had previously jiggled when diagnosing the windows.
Went back around and turned the key.
BEEEEE!
Turned it to crank and started right up!
Revved it some and then let idle for about 5 minutes while we looked at the engine.

Turned it off and let it sit for a few minutes while we looked at some belts.

Tried to start it again and it made the BEEEE when I put the key in and then the same CLICK as before from under the car. Tried again and nothing.

SO, this leads me to believe my fuse box is probably fine as is that connector.
My battery may be going but that isn't my current problem.
The wire going from that connector to the battery and alternator must be frayed or broken in some place.
Looks like I'll need to trace the cable and inspect the length of it.

The good thing is this proves that the problem isn't with the starting system.
The bad thing is this confirms it is with the electrical, which can be a pain.
Another good thing though is that fixing those wires may restore my windows, heater, and A/C!

Ahh well, time to look into tracing that wire. Anything I should know about tracing wires in the engine cavity?

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Originally Posted By: JasonTL
It started!

Well, let me get around to that part, hah.

So, I cleaned the contacts with the CRC cleaner. Sprayed all the contacts on the male end and then sprayed the female receivers. Let dry a few minutes and then resprayed both. Let it sit for about an hour to insure it was dry.
Checked the battery before hooking it up and it read 12.75v(down .6 from 13.35 yesterday, hmmm) and then hooked it up. Tested the male terminals and the two that got 7.5v previously had 12.75v now. No others had anything.
Put connector back on, wiggling some as I tightened the bolt.
Tested fuse box and the 1st and 4th columns had 12.75v. Previously columns 1, 2, and 4 had power.
Put key in, no sound, turned, nothing.
Went back around to engine and jiggled some wires I had previously jiggled when diagnosing the windows.
Went back around and turned the key.
BEEEEE!
Turned it to crank and started right up!
Revved it some and then let idle for about 5 minutes while we looked at the engine.

Turned it off and let it sit for a few minutes while we looked at some belts.

Tried to start it again and it made the BEEEE when I put the key in and then the same CLICK as before from under the car. Tried again and nothing.

SO, this leads me to believe my fuse box is probably fine as is that connector.
My battery may be going but that isn't my current problem.
The wire going from that connector to the battery and alternator must be frayed or broken in some place.
Looks like I'll need to trace the cable and inspect the length of it.

The good thing is this proves that the problem isn't with the starting system.
The bad thing is this confirms it is with the electrical, which can be a pain.
Another good thing though is that fixing those wires may restore my windows, heater, and A/C!

Ahh well, time to look into tracing that wire. Anything I should know about tracing wires in the engine cavity?


You need a new starter?

 

[JasonTL]

Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs
Originally Posted By: JasonTL
My previous ramblings, see above.


You need a new starter?

I don't think so. Would that prevent the annoying BEEEEE sound when I turn the key to use the accessories? Key doesn't do or initiate any sounds when turned, which makes me think it's an electrical problem unless the starter controls power going into the dash.

 

[JasonTL]

I traced some wires today and at the ignition coil there is about 98k ohms of resistance between the battery and the ignition coil left connector that comes from the distributor. To me that seems like a problem but is it?

I have also located 4 decent size wires in the back of the fuse box.
Red, goes to the battery connections on the alternator, has 12.7v and I believe powers column #1 on the fuse box,
Pink, goes to the ignition coil, unknown voltage, I believe it goes to column #2,
Purple, I know it goes back behind the distributor but from there I can't follow it, I believe it is Column #3 which powers Heater, AC, and Windows, this doesn't have any power,
A 2nd Red, don't know where it goes, has 12.7v and powers column #4.

My Chilton doesn't have a wiring diagram of the engine for this model and year. Does anybody have a Haynes they could check? Or maybe someone knows the full routing of the Purple and Pink?

I know my ignition wiring is loose because if I fiddle with it the car sometimes won't start but when I fiddle with it again it will.
I really want to restore power to that 3rd column though because then I can get my windows and/or AC working.

EDIT: Could a bad ignition coil be making my engine start intermittently like this?