car payments?!

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Originally Posted By: mshu7
Again, I disagree. At this point though, I'll agree to disagree with those that, uh, disagree with me.


I guess I'll do the same. I will close, though, with saying the same thing of Dave Ramsey's advice that I say of yours, and anyone who claims that one direction is the wrong way to go, no matter what. It's easy to make recommendations to others when it's their money, their lifestyle, and their peace of mind at stake. He looks at one aspect of a car payment at the exclusion of others to make his point.

Opinions, as they say, are like ........ We all have 'em.
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There was a time in my life when I enjoyed a different, but not necessarily new vehicle every 1.5-2yrs. Every one of them financed reasonably. If you buy within your means I see absolutely nothing wrong with financing. Car loans are so cheap and easy to get, why would you want to dump a huge amount of capital into a vehicle? Only once did I dump a large sum of money towards the purchase of a new vehicle. I'd probably not do that again.

Joel
 
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New doesn't always been dependable. I've had more problems with my Ranger that I bought at 50 miles than the Escape at 32k. Personally buying vehicles at 30k is a better practice than buying new. Majority of the bugs should of been worked out under warranty. But your still buying used. New or used your still depending on the idiot that had it before you.. the factory worker or previous owner.
 
I bought my MS3 new and it has had more issues cost more to operate than my 2002, 318ti, and X3 combined.
 
I think in general you can extend the question to almost any big purchase. For example, wouldn't it be great to buy a house for cash and then never have payments? Of course most of us can't do that, but even if you could it might have been a really stupid move if say you bought the house in 2007 before the world economy collapsed and now your house is worth 25% less. In other words, your "investment" has lost one-quarter of its value in three-four years. It will be a long time before that "investment" is back to even par. On the other hand, if you financed you might instead be only out of pocket the payments for the last few years + closing costs and a strategic default on the loan might actually make a lot of sense if you are underwater. Another example of when it is wise to borrow is for college. Sure you'll have loans on graduation but your lifetime earnings will more than make up the difference. Note also how college grads have a much lower unemployment rate (like half).
 
I see many ladies with a modest income (some guys too) buying new cars because their old ones are "out of style" or starting to look shabby, even though their old car is stll reliable. They don't worry about things like retirement or investing.
 
Car payments freak me out...maybe because I've always feared poverty in my life in one form or the other.

I feel like even if I made double my income, I would still worry somewhat about my finances. I am a huge saver.

As much as I have drooled over new vehicles, I have resisted and repaired my Saturn. I know keeping it keeps money in my bank account.

For my next car, I will probably look in the 4-5 year old range.
 
It depends. If you have the time to work on an older vehicle, it's worth it to buy old and fix what breaks. If you don't have skills/tools/time, it's worth the peace of mind to shell out $350 a month as insurance your car will get looked at and possibly fixed with no more cost to you for the next 36k miles.

I'm thinking hard of buying a newer car after dropping about $500 in parts and tools into the Buick's brakes this past November and December, plus another $250 in wheel bearings and tools in December. Not to mention several weekends of my time spent freezing outside working on the @#$@#%! car. Just had to fix an antifreeze leak that was getting serious last weekend. Now the alternator's making noise, the belt is likely stretched, and the belt tensioner may need replacing. So I'm being bitten hard by what some have called the "old-car" bug lately. The Fit just needed the washer fluid topped off, and the snow tires put on in that time. Cost: about equal for maintenance and payments.

So, that's comparing a newer car to a much older car. Costs are about equal, but one needed much more TLC to stay operational.
 
Is there anything wrong with it? Well, especially if you can get a low rate and have better options elsewhere, maybe not. Put your money in an S&P fund this year and it went up 8%, IIRC. Elsewhere in a blended small and large cap fund, likely more like 12% this year. Get a 3% car loan and even after taxes you are ahead if you invested.

Is it smart long term to not carry debt? yes. Is it dumb to continually be financing cars? yes. Im not very concerned if I need to have a payment for a (short) while to buy a car, as we keep our cars for the long run, and therefore extract full utility from them. We do not have the issue of interest and depreciation making a car purchase that much more expensive when we go back around to sell it.

But I would not be a fan of a >5%, >36mo car payment either.
 
I see no problem with buying brand spanking new and financing an affordable amount every 10 years or so. but if i were flipping cars i'd do it cash and on used ones 5 yr old ++.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
I don't drive to work every day (public transportation) but I still have the Audi because it's one of my primary hobbies. I get a lot of enjoyment out of driving it, cleaning it, working on it, racing it, etc. So for me the loan + insurance + gas + maintenance is worth it.


+1...Commute by LIRR/Subway. I love sport bikes and my new 2011 Mustang GT, but I do tend to hang onto vehicles for a very long time...I get attached to the good ones.

Originally Posted By: opus
meh, I have the same questions about people who pay almost $100/month for a cell phone when my pay-as-you-go Virgin Mobile service works just fine; or pay for cable TV to watch nothing of substance when my 10-year-old, Radio Shack antenna pulls in free TV just fine, and so on.

All depends on what floats your boat. And my bills are all paid.


Prepaid cellular for me too! I keep a very tight rein on the reoccurring monthly expenses and live a pretty no-frills life. The 401K and Roth get maxed out every year, I refinanced several times to LOWER my monthly mortgage payment, and not use the house as a ATM...will be paid-off in a few years.

I put 1/2 down on the Mustang, and financed the rest...usually paying it off in 2-3 years. I like to keep a portion of my cash liquid and use credit as a tool....like reward credit-cards paid off every month, so they pay me to use them! I'm just a blue-collar guy that manages his cash responsibly.
 
Originally Posted By: opus1
meh, I have the same questions about people who pay almost $100/month for a cell phone when my pay-as-you-go Virgin Mobile service works just fine; or pay for cable TV to watch nothing of substance when my 10-year-old, Radio Shack antenna pulls in free TV just fine, and so on.

All depends on what floats your boat. And my bills are all paid.


Agreed 100%...I only have a cell phone (barebones cell phone at that) because it's provided by the company I work for. Otherwise, we have a pay-for-advance minutes back up cell phone to take on vacations.

Families with huge flat-screen tv's in every room, more video games then the kids can remember owning, the huge/giant fancy houses with 3-4 car garages, 2,500sq+, huge electric bills, etc..when there's only a family of 3-4 people and too many rooms to fit furniture into.

I run into that a lot, and they're typically the ones super-stressed out on trying to make ends meet.

Our 4 vehicles are paid for, and not one of them has less then 120k miles.

We *do* have a 5th wheel payment on a used one that's much less then your average used car payment; but that's *our* choice of toy and relaxation; we have a fairly small house with only 1,500sq ft, no garage of any kind, no cell phones, only 1 TV, 2 computers, and our vehicles are 7yrs of age up to 15yrs of age.

At some point, 10yrs from now or so, we're going to need a *newer* truck for towing the 5th wheel, but it won't be newer then 3-4yrs of age at time of purchase.

Our 91 & 97 rodeo's were the first and only vehicles ever bought new, and with them it was worth it; they've been fabulous trucks; but I won't do it again....cost of a new SUV has bout doubled and then some of what I paid for those trucks 13+yrs ago.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It depends. If you have the time to work on an older vehicle, it's worth it to buy old and fix what breaks. If you don't have skills/tools/time, it's worth the peace of mind to shell out $350 a month as insurance your car will get looked at and possibly fixed with no more cost to you for the next 36k miles.

I'm thinking hard of buying a newer car after dropping about $500 in parts and tools into the Buick's brakes this past November and December, plus another $250 in wheel bearings and tools in December. Not to mention several weekends of my time spent freezing outside working on the @#$@#%! car. Just had to fix an antifreeze leak that was getting serious last weekend. Now the alternator's making noise, the belt is likely stretched, and the belt tensioner may need replacing. So I'm being bitten hard by what some have called the "old-car" bug lately. The Fit just needed the washer fluid topped off, and the snow tires put on in that time. Cost: about equal for maintenance and payments.

So, that's comparing a newer car to a much older car. Costs are about equal, but one needed much more TLC to stay operational.


I totally see your point....thing is, there is NO guarantee a newer car is going to come perfect with no absolute mechanical issues for 30-40k miles.

Case in point, we bought a slightly used 04 Tacoma with only 15k miles on it; truck was thoroughly inspected by more then 2 mechanics at the time of purchase....wasn't within the 40k mile mark it started having coolant temp sensor issues, tires that the dealer put on new at 15k miles were shot, shocks were shot, brakes/rotors needed replaced...etc.

That same week, I had to put the same amount of money, actually more (cause Toyota parts are more expensive) into the Tacoma as I did into our '97 rodeo, a truck that had more then 4 times the amount of mileage then the Tacoma on it's FIRST set of rotors.

I replaced the first set of rotors/brakes on the rodeo at 170k miles; the Tacoma needed them at 40k miles....where did I save the money at? Both came do the same week; shocks on the rodeo lasted over 10yrs, on the tacoma they were shot within 3yrs.

Rodeo only costs $35 for full coverage; Tacoma $75, plus the Tacoma had a carpayment attached to it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Tacoma....but we definitely didn't get spared on any mechanical repairs different from our older trucks just cause it was newer.

So many people go into believing a newer car comes with many less issues; this is not always the case, and once your past the warranty, you're on your own with a car payment still to make.

$350/month yearly is like putting $4,200 dollars towards repairs on an older vehicle....I've gotten lucky in the fact that even my 13yr old truck with 200k miles has never required $4,200 in repairs the whole time I've owned it.
 
I'll buy a brand new vehicle every 10 years or so. That way Im getting my $ worth, and I'll always have a decent ride. Bought my RAnger new in 04, when the 14's come out i'll buy a nice sedan, in 24' I'll replace the Ranger with another truck, and follow the new car/truck pattern untill I die....
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Originally Posted By: daman
Right now i'm driving a 12 year old truck and working on paying the house off(5 years,yea!),never know when you won't have a job and it gives me just as much pleasure as our new trucks at work.



Dont worry about it D-MAN,your using Mobil-1 in their,so it will last forever!!
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I see threads like this pop up every once in awhile, and it seems they are just there for people to brag that they can afford to pay cash for stuff.

they reality for many people is, they can't afford to have a car break down. used cars are fine, I've spent most of my life with them, but I also remember how much time and money I've spent to keep them running.
I've got an extra $3K of credit card debt now from keeping a used car running; THEN, it got wrecked from hit and run. money GONE.

lots of people budget for a car payment and they don't have to worry about repairs, and in some cases, even tires. I work w/ a guy like that; new car every 2-3 years. no garage time, no repairs, just oil changes, car is in warranty the whole time.

my used cars have caused me WAY more stress and concern than when I've bought new.

currently we're keeping costs down by having ONE car, an '09 Mazda5 we bought new. payment is $200/mo. MUCH better than surprise $500 repairs.
 
Originally Posted By: mpvue
I see threads like this pop up every once in awhile, and it seems they are just there for people to brag that they can afford to pay cash for stuff.

they reality for many people is, they can't afford to have a car break down. used cars are fine, I've spent most of my life with them, but I also remember how much time and money I've spent to keep them running.
I've got an extra $3K of credit card debt now from keeping a used car running; THEN, it got wrecked from hit and run. money GONE.

lots of people budget for a car payment and they don't have to worry about repairs, and in some cases, even tires. I work w/ a guy like that; new car every 2-3 years. no garage time, no repairs, just oil changes, car is in warranty the whole time.

my used cars have caused me WAY more stress and concern than when I've bought new.

currently we're keeping costs down by having ONE car, an '09 Mazda5 we bought new. payment is $200/mo. MUCH better than surprise $500 repairs.


This theory is all fine and respected and understood; however, not everyone has use for a car which tend to be a LOT cheaper then a brand-new 3/4 - 1 ton truck that one might need for work and/or towing purposes.

I have yet to see a 1 ton dodge dually cummins brand-new that could be bought for payments in the $200 area such as that you were able to get with your car....these trucks range in price, brand-new from $35k stripped out to thousands more for the proper equipment, i.e. 4 doors, 4x4, etc.

Our used 01 cummins we bought in 03 for half of the cost of a brand-new one; only repairs we've done in over 140k miles is tires. It's truck payment was half the cost of a new one and allowed us to pay it off quicker, but that does not mean we're looking for a new one....this truck still drives brand-new and looks brand-new and by continuing to keep it, we save over $450/month. This truck only costs us $100/monthly to own, includes gas, insurance, tires, etc.

A brand-new car, model depending, are thousands cheaper...so I can see your point if a car is the only thing one is in need of; still yet, not that many people get a payment of $200 or less on a brand-new car unless they're putting couple thousand dollars down.

I do see your point though, however, we've always gotten lucky with used cars....I've never had enough repairs to even equal the cost of a $200/monthly car payment in the length of a years time..

That said, the vehicles we currently own all came with payments at their initial purchase; I've never had cash in hand for the trucks we currently have.....however because I *did* buy one fairly new and paid out my a$$ for new plates, taxes, insurance, etc. it will stay till the very end. It has 200k miles and has never once had to be towed for leaving us stranded, that particular truck costs me less then $30/month to own.

I average $200 per month for 3 trucks that all have over 140k miles; I'm not doing to bad. Considering only one newer vehicle would cost me twice that much for only the ONE new vehicle.

We do take prestine care of our vehicles and the used ones we purchase are literally taken to 3 different mechanics before we buy them....my expenses on *used* older trucks has always been cheaper then family members who've bought new, whether it be a car, minivan or truck.
 
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Originally Posted By: mshu7
Again, I disagree. At this point though, I'll agree to disagree with those that, uh, disagree with me. But here's some reading material for all the "math" guys out there. Happy reading
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http://www.daveramsey.com/article/the-truth-about-car-payments/lifeandmoney_automobiles/


Let's take it one step further! Instead of applying that $475.00 a month towards a replacement car for the beater, let's just keep buying beaters.
You can't get a truck. Truck is a luxury. Use your neighbor's Milwaukee Sawzall to remove the roof from your 5-door Geo Metro. A/C and heat are a luxury anyway. So is structural integrity. Voila' budget "truck".
When the Geo Metro expires, call the local auto recycler to just come pick it up. Repairing cars is a luxury. Go buy an Accent. When you need a truck again repeat the roof saw.
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$475 a month for a car? I've never paid near that much for a car. My car payment and full coverage insurance for both of my cars is less than $475 a month. Now I do pay 5% interest but I get GAP coverage included for "free" with my financing so I just consider the 5% to be a GAP Insurance payment.

If my payments are ever $475/mo for 6 years, (6 years!!!) then I do not have a good enough down payment to even consider buying that car.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
You can't get a truck. Truck is a luxury.


You gonna willingly say this to the construction company that just hired you and requires that you own a truck or full size van which can NOT be had, brand-new for the same cheap price you can get a car.

I would've loved to see the faces of all the contractors I've worked for over the years by suggesting, hey, a truck is a luxury that I don't need for work.

Go ahead and load up a trunk full of tile, or hook a backhoe trailer to your car, we'll see how far it'll get you.

Not aiming to be rude, but there are ranchers, farmers, construction workers, even retired people who DO have an absolute need for a good strong truck in order to survive and make their living....have you seen a modern 4 dr *car* towing a 4 stall horse trailer?
 
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